VOX Settings

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rbduck
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VOX Settings

Postby rbduck » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:26 pm

Need VOX advice. I have had my black 7000DLE mkII for two years now and enjoy it immensely. I have most things in Thetis working well except for one thing. VOX! I just can't seem to get it to work correctly. I have no problem getting it to trip when I speak. The main issue I have is the sound from the speakers from tripping it. I have tried every adjustment that are located Settings>DSP>VOX/DE. Let me back up for a minute.

The problem:
When I get to the point where I think it will work correctly, when I stop speaking it will begin to oscillate on and off. On and off.

I started with the Anti-VOX. I used different numbers in the Gain setting. From -60 to 60 (dB). And different numbers in Tau (ms). If I set Gain at about 50db I could get to stop oscillating ON and OFF. That would keep it from tripping at all. I gradually moved the number toward 0.00, It would trip ( activate), but then start that oscillating. I have tried using various settings in all the different adjustments with the same result. I have also changed position of the speakers and microphone. I've tried different microphones. I have been trying to make it work correctly for two years now.

I thought I may have been running the sound at too high a level. When I turn it down to the point VOX works I can't hear what people are saying.
I know I'm missing something simple. It would be better if I understood what effect Gain and Tau are supposed to do. If I had the settings that someone that is successfully using, that might be a better point for me to begin. Is there a good place where I can read about those settings?
I try to find and read information thoroughly before posting a new topic for help.

Also I can use a headset with a mic and it works perfectly. I hope some of you can push me in the right direction. Thanks.

Edit #1: I am reading the information at https://apache-labs.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3049&p=7168 I've read it before , but doing it again to see if I can get more from it.
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
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w-u-2-o
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:10 pm

Post some screen shots, please (add to attachments tab, then place inline):

- Of your VOX settings

and the next three so we can see levels on the VOX meter (VOX can be off)

- Of the main UI while the room is quiet
- Of the main UI while speaking into the mic
- Of the main UI with a loud station

How far is the mic from you mouth?

What kind of mic is it?

Note: -30dB of anti-vox should be adequate for normal listening levels, -20 for loud listening levels, and -10 for insane listening levels, assuming that levels on the VOX meter are not pushed more than just below the VOX threshold by receiver audio out of the speakers.
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rbduck
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby rbduck » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:32 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:Post some screen shots, please (add to attachments tab, then place inline):

- Of your VOX settings

and the next three so we can see levels on the VOX meter (VOX can be off)

- Of the main UI while the room is quiet
- Of the main UI while speaking into the mic
- Of the main UI with a loud station

How far is the mic from you mouth?

What kind of mic is it?

Note: -30dB of anti-vox should be adequate for normal listening levels, -20 for loud listening levels, and -10 for insane listening levels, assuming that levels on the VOX meter are not pushed more than just below the VOX threshold by receiver audio out of the speakers.


OK, Here are some screenshots. I had a difficult time finding some strong signals. I used 80 meters because I could easily get strong signals and frequencies that are quiet. My microphone is an Audio-Technica AT2020. When I speak I'm usually from 3 to 6 inches from the mic. I have the mic positioned on a boom with the element directed away from the speakers. Any ideas or corrections to what I have is appreciated. I picked 80 meters because the band was relatively quiet and I found some very strong signals in contrast. The VOX setting on the UI is set to 0 db.
That is normally set to -8 db.


Here are my VOX settings
Settings.jpg
Settings.jpg (96.69 KiB) Viewed 2852 times


Here is the quiet room:
Quiet.jpg
Quiet.jpg (700.64 KiB) Viewed 2852 times


Here is me speaking:
Speaking.jpg
Speaking.jpg (660.73 KiB) Viewed 2852 times


Here are strong signals:
StrongSig.jpg
StrongSig.jpg (668.21 KiB) Viewed 2852 times


Thanks Much!
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
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w-u-2-o
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:42 pm

Det tau at 5 ms is too short. It will pick up every tiny noise. 20 ms would be better. All other settings look OK.

I have a Behringer B1, so very similar to your AT2020. The B1 is slightly more sensitive front and rear so it's a very conservative comparison.

Your quiet room is much too noisy. With just noise tuned in on my speakers, plus normal room background, I see less than -60 on the VOX meter.

Your level input level when speaking is also on the high side.

And the level you see from a loud station is also very high. I typically see more like -40 on the VOX meter.

Three inches from the mic is probably better for this application than six inches.

I'm guessing that excessive mic gain is the bulk of the problem.

Please forgive the following dumb questions:

- What interface are you using?
- Phantom power is on, right?
- You are talking into the side of the mic, not the end, right?
- And you've got the correct (front) side facing you and not facing the speakers, right?

Assuming all that is as it should be, set VAC TX gain to 0dB.
If you are using any intermediate software like Voicemeeter make sure that gain through that path is also 0dB.
With that done, set the level on the mic interface to achieve between -10 and -5 using the Thetis mic level meter (the main meter, not the VOX meter, it's easier to read the big one).
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rbduck
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby rbduck » Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:34 am

Scott,

You have given some very good information and a good place to start. I have always thought my mic was too hot, but no one has ever said it sounded hot. I have noticed that when the room is quiet, I mean dead quiet, I was getting a level on the meter that was too high. I put it off to the meter being very sensitive. I guess I have my verification that it 's not I will crank it back some. I am speaking into the correct side of the mic. You have me thinking now. I'm going to check and see if the mic may be assembled correctly. Surely the parts were keyed in a fashion that would make mating the parts backward very difficult. I have found stranger things before. :D

I have the audio piped through VoiceMeeter Potato utilizing Virtual pathways and ASIO drivers. I have the microphone connected to the first input.
It's associated meter was the one I was assuming as very sensitive. I also agree with your assumption that the mic being adjusted too hot is most of my problems.

Edit: My granddaughter just ran by, hit the keyboard and submitted before i was finished. I'm using a Soundblaster AE-9 audio card. The mic is fed into the cards external control with the 48 volt Phantom power turned on.

I will put all you mentioned in effect tomorrow morning. I expect it to work. As always I have learned a lot from this issue. The only concern I have is the amount of sound from the speaker getting back into the pipe. I'll be back and let you know how it goes. Thanks Scott!
73
Ruben
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Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
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w-u-2-o
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:23 am

Sounds good. Don't worry about running a mic level in Thetis of between -10 and -5. The leveler, which comes after VOX, will efficiently make up the slack very easily.
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rbduck
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby rbduck » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:56 pm

I went through and changes the settings that we discussed. From that point forward my VOX has been working flawlessly.

I have one more question. There are setting for Max Gain and Decay for the Leveler. Location DSP>AGC/ALC. I believe the values there are the default from when I first installed Thetis. The values are Gain 7dB and Decay 1 ms. Are those good values?

I'm probably go through the audio chain setup that is in Rob's (A1AEX) video. Keeping in mind what I have discovered since I performed it 18 months ago, (approximately) The settings are probably still really close to where they should be. Although I try and not tinker with anything after I have it set up, I don't remember if I have touched it since I originally did it. Most all the Anan's I hear on the bands have a distinctive sound. The audio on every one I've heard have a clear distinctive sound. I think much of that is due to good tuning and Pure Signal.

Thanks again for all your help. May you and your family have a Safe and Happy Christmas!
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
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w-u-2-o
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Re: VOX Settings

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:27 pm

Glad it was an easy fix. The VOX in Thetis is the most advanced VOX on the planet, and probably of all time, built into an amateur radio or marketed to amateur radio. You can't find anything like it outside of studio equipment (which won't key your radio ;) ) In particular the look ahead feature that keeps first syllables from dropping makes it completely transparent. Very few people will know that you are running VOX, it's just that good.

I don't remember the leveler defaults. However, 7dB max gain is a good starting point. I like more, some like less, you'll have to experiment and see what kind of signal reports you get. However, 1ms is far too short a decay time. I'd recommend 100ms. That will smooth out the rate of leveler gain changes.

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