Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

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nir_4x1fk
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Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:40 am

Hello group,
Any information regarding to connect the 7000 to an External antenna tuner, that will communicate with "Thetis" by connecting to the rear 9 Pin connector?
1. What antenna tuner are support?
2. Any schematic diagram for the cable?
3. what antenna tuner recommended ?

Thank you all
Nir 4X1FK
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:24 pm

There no tuners on the market that will communicate with any Apache hardware for fully automatic tuning. Any autotuner you buy will have to be run in semi-automatic mode: hit the TUN button in Thetis, then hit the tune button on the tuner (if the tuner needs that). When the tuner is done hit the TUN button in Thetis again.

Thus there is no specific list of tuners, all are "compatible". There are no control cables to build. Note also that the 9 pin connector is NOT a serial port.

It seems that you are not very familiar with antenna tuners in general. Is that the case? Is this your first HF radio? First tuner? You should be selecting a tuner based on how much RF power you will be running and what kind of antennas you will be tuning.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:58 pm

Hi and thank you for the info.
Well this is not my first radio, I'm familiar with many radios... Hi... operate from the 80's :) and this is my 7's + - SDR...
The reason I asked, is that I want to have memories restored. as I have a poor antenna, and changing band, needs to retune every time.
I know that MFJ , and LDG for instance have such. But I don't know (as I did not have an auto tuner), If it is easy to recall memories.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby w9mdb » Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:23 pm

So I guess you have a tuner now? What model?

I have an app I've created (but not released) that works with the LDG and MFJ tuners. It will auto-tune on band change but allow you to "walk the frequencies without tuning (saves on the relays during a frequency walk). It works with FLRig right now as that's the way I operate. One other special thing it does is when it switches to CW mode it (like from a cluster spot) it will tune off 100Hz below the requested frequency (so you're not tuning on the spot frequency.
Mike W9MDB
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:41 pm

A high quality autotuner will have an internal memory function. It will measure the frequency, see if it is within a certain tolerance of an existing memory, and use that memory if it is, assuming nothing has changed on the antenna that made that memory invalid. Tuning will not be instant but it should be less than 1 or 2 seconds. Many tuners have that capability as you already know.

One possibility for more advanced tuner operation might be the Elecraft KAT500, if it meets your tuner requirements. The KAT500 will accept Kenwood "IF" CAT commands and Thetis supports that. You would have to provide a serial port on the PC and a serial cable between the PC and the KAT500. Perhaps someone here has already done that.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:58 pm

w9mdb wrote:So I guess you have a tuner now? What model?

I have an app I've created (but not released) that works with the LDG and MFJ tuners. It will auto-tune on band change but allow you to "walk the frequencies without tuning (saves on the relays during a frequency walk). It works with FLRig right now as that's the way I operate. One other special thing it does is when it switches to CW mode it (like from a cluster spot) it will tune off 100Hz below the requested frequency (so you're not tuning on the spot frequency.


Hi,
That's looks very interesting. If I go with LDG or MFJ, I will be most happy to have your app.

73's
Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:09 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:A high quality autotuner will have an internal memory function. It will measure the frequency, see if it is within a certain tolerance of an existing memory, and use that memory if it is, assuming nothing has changed on the antenna that made that memory invalid. Tuning will not be instant but it should be less than 1 or 2 seconds. Many tuners have that capability as you already know.

One possibility for more advanced tuner operation might be the Elecraft KAT500, if it meets your tuner requirements. The KAT500 will accept Kenwood "IF" CAT commands and Thetis supports that. You would have to provide a serial port on the PC and a serial cable between the PC and the KAT500. Perhaps someone here has already done that.


Hi, and Thank you for the informative answer.
Yes, The Elecraft have a Hi quality products, I may look as the KAT500.

Best 73's
Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:13 pm

nir_4x1fk wrote:
w9mdb wrote:So I guess you have a tuner now? What model?

I have an app I've created (but not released) that works with the LDG and MFJ tuners. It will auto-tune on band change but allow you to "walk the frequencies without tuning (saves on the relays during a frequency walk). It works with FLRig right now as that's the way I operate. One other special thing it does is when it switches to CW mode it (like from a cluster spot) it will tune off 100Hz below the requested frequency (so you're not tuning on the spot frequency.


Hi,
That's looks very interesting. If I go with LDG or MFJ, I will be most happy to have your app.
P.s
I have at the moment a Manual Tuner.

73's
Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby oe3ide » Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:32 pm

I am using an Palstar AT-Auto (Kessler). This tuner is connected via RS-232 to a virtual serial port (Thetis) using the Kenwood protocol. Frequency change is immediate and fully automatic.
But the rest has to be done manually: Tune, switching from bypass to auto or manual.

https://kesslerengineeringllc.com/tuners.html

Schematics:
OE3IDE SerialCommunicaton 03-2022.jpg
OE3IDE SerialCommunicaton 03-2022.jpg (229.4 KiB) Viewed 7353 times


73 de Ernst
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:36 pm

oe3ide wrote:I am using an Palstar AT-Auto (Kessler). This tuner is connected via RS-232 to a virtual serial port (Thetis) using the Kenwood protocol. Frequency change is immediate and fully automatic.
But the rest has to be done manually: Tune, switching from bypass to auto or manual.

https://kesslerengineeringllc.com/tuners.html

Schematics:
OE3IDE SerialCommunicaton 03-2022.jpg

73 de Ernst



Than you ernst for the informative solution.
I don't know if I will go with the Palstar, as is expensive for me.
I may think to go with the Elecraft KAT500. The schematic that you sent, is very helpful. I hope that It will match + - The KAT-500 with the kenwood cat.

73;s
Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:41 pm

nir_4x1fk wrote:
oe3ide wrote:I am using an Palstar AT-Auto (Kessler). This tuner is connected via RS-232 to a virtual serial port (Thetis) using the Kenwood protocol. Frequency change is immediate and fully automatic.
But the rest has to be done manually: Tune, switching from bypass to auto or manual.

https://kesslerengineeringllc.com/tuners.html

Schematics:
OE3IDE SerialCommunicaton 03-2022.jpg

73 de Ernst



Thank you ernst for the informative solution.
I don't know if I will go with the Palstar, as is expensive for me.
I may think to go with the Elecraft KAT500. The schematic that you sent, is very helpful. I hope that It will match + - The KAT-500 with the kenwood cat.

73;s
Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:01 pm

nir_4x1fk wrote:I may think to go with the Elecraft KAT500. The schematic that you sent, is very helpful. I hope that It will match + - The KAT-500 with the kenwood cat.

You won't need anything near that complex, and you won't need any virtual serial ports. You will need a single real serial port (card or USB type). You will have to plan on either making or buying a suitable cable.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:55 am

w-u-2-o wrote:
nir_4x1fk wrote:I may think to go with the Elecraft KAT500. The schematic that you sent, is very helpful. I hope that It will match + - The KAT-500 with the kenwood cat.

You won't need anything near that complex, and you won't need any virtual serial ports. You will need a single real serial port (card or USB type). You will have to plan on either making or buying a suitable cable.


Hi Scott,

Thank you for the info. Helps a lot.
I contact Elecraft, asking the deferent of to model types (K) and (F).
Do you have any experience with this Tuner?

thank's
Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby rdwing » Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:09 am

With a lot of the auto tuners in combination with the open collector outputs on the anan, it can be made to work. I just got this working with my MFJ-998.
Wherever I QSY to on the anan, I click TUN which sends 10w and initiates a tuning cycle on the tuner by asserting Pin 6 (TUN only). Then, if I need to tune the amp, I click 2Tone which keys the amplifier (Pin 7 MOX/2Tone) and away we go.
I also get software controlled keying on the amp by using the open collectors instead of the built in PTT OUT.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:36 am

rdwing wrote:With a lot of the auto tuners in combination with the open collector outputs on the anan, it can be made to work. I just got this working with my MFJ-998.
Wherever I QSY to on the anan, I click TUN which sends 10w and initiates a tuning cycle on the tuner by asserting Pin 6 (TUN only). Then, if I need to tune the amp, I click 2Tone which keys the amplifier (Pin 7 MOX/2Tone) and away we go.
I also get software controlled keying on the amp by using the open collectors instead of the built in PTT OUT.



That looks interesting to look for.
Thank you for the information.

Nir 4X1FK
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:43 am

nir_4x1fk wrote:Hi Scott,

Thank you for the info. Helps a lot.
I contact Elecraft, asking the deferent of to model types (K) and (F).
Do you have any experience with this Tuner?

thank's
Nir 4X1FK
The difference between K and F is that the K is a kit, the F is delivered fully built. I don't have any experience with this tuner, but I do have experience with Elecraft kits, which are easy, fun and educational to put together. I also own two Elecraft amplifiers and like both of them very much.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:44 am

rdwing wrote:With a lot of the auto tuners in combination with the open collector outputs on the anan, it can be made to work. I just got this working with my MFJ-998.
Wherever I QSY to on the anan, I click TUN which sends 10w and initiates a tuning cycle on the tuner by asserting Pin 6 (TUN only). Then, if I need to tune the amp, I click 2Tone which keys the amplifier (Pin 7 MOX/2Tone) and away we go.
I also get software controlled keying on the amp by using the open collectors instead of the built in PTT OUT.

This doesn't do what the OP wants, which is to tell the tuner what frequency the radio is on via CAT. Nor does it fully automate the tuning process. But it certainly adds a welcome bit of automation where the 998 is concerned.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby nir_4x1fk » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:53 am

w-u-2-o wrote:
nir_4x1fk wrote:Hi Scott,

Thank you for the info. Helps a lot.
I contact Elecraft, asking the deferent of to model types (K) and (F).
Do you have any experience with this Tuner?

thank's
Nir 4X1FK
The difference between K and F is that the K is a kit, the F is delivered fully built. I don't have any experience with this tuner, but I do have experience with Elecraft kits, which are easy, fun and educational to put together. I also own two Elecraft amplifiers and like both of them very much.


Hi,
Yes I have experience with The Kx3, built it few yeas ago. It was a lot of fun. :)
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby WM4CH » Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:50 am

rdwing wrote:With a lot of the auto tuners in combination with the open collector outputs on the anan, it can be made to work. I just got this working with my MFJ-998.
Wherever I QSY to on the anan, I click TUN which sends 10w and initiates a tuning cycle on the tuner by asserting Pin 6 (TUN only). Then, if I need to tune the amp, I click 2Tone which keys the amplifier (Pin 7 MOX/2Tone) and away we go.
I also get software controlled keying on the amp by using the open collectors instead of the built in PTT OUT.


Does the OC pin ( pin 6 in your case ) and TUN only put the amp in bypass automatically if using the PTT loop through the 998 or do you still have to.

I am still trying to find a way to get the 998 to put the amp in standby or put my ALS-1306 amp in standby from the ANAN automatically to tune without having to manually flip the Operate / Standby switch on the amp. I use the 998 PTT loop to bypass the amp when the SWR is above 1.5 and that works well, but there must be some built in way to get the tuner to not pass the PTT to the amp since it can do this for high SWR, but have not found it yet.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby rdwing » Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:15 pm

Has nothing to do with the PTT bypass on the 998. I have configured the OC's to only assert pin 6 when depressing TUN. Pin 6 and ground is connected to a pin on the MFJ-998 interface cable (I just used a basic ethernet cable and cut the end off), I can't remember exactly which but you can test and see. I recall changing the mode of the MFJ-998 interface to kenwood, I think.

So, you hit TUN in thetis which sends RF power and asserts pin 6 which causes the MFJ-998 to initiate a tune cycle.

To handle the amp keying, pick another OC output (say pin 7) and configure it to be asserted during MOX (optionally MOX/2Tone).
For extra brownie points you can configure xPA control on Pin 7 TX, this gives you a new button under PS-A, a software selectable way to engage/disengage keying something.

Seems to work for everything except QSK.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby WM4CH » Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:04 pm

rdwing wrote:Has nothing to do with the PTT bypass on the 998. I have configured the OC's to only assert pin 6 when depressing TUN. Pin 6 and ground is connected to a pin on the MFJ-998 interface cable (I just used a basic ethernet cable and cut the end off), I can't remember exactly which but you can test and see. I recall changing the mode of the MFJ-998 interface to kenwood, I think.

So, you hit TUN in thetis which sends RF power and asserts pin 6 which causes the MFJ-998 to initiate a tune cycle.

To handle the amp keying, pick another OC output (say pin 7) and configure it to be asserted during MOX (optionally MOX/2Tone).
For extra brownie points you can configure xPA control on Pin 7 TX, this gives you a new button under PS-A, a software selectable way to engage/disengage keying something.

Seems to work for everything except QSK.



Thanks,

Just to make sure I understand correctly:

On the OC output for the pin I select, say 7, If I select TUNE on the drop down, on transmit using the TUN button in Thetis , pin 7 will go to ground and sink the voltage that was on pin 7 at the amp side to close to zero volts?

Is that correct?

Also what is keeping pins 1-4 from going to ground with the default being MOX/TUNE/2TONE because I use those pins for ALS-1306 band select. Is that the EXT Contol Button below the OC pin boxes? Seem lime maybe I can use either the OC pins or the transmit pins, not both.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby rdwing » Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:17 pm

WM4CH wrote:On the OC output for the pin I select, say 7, If I select TUNE on the drop down, on transmit using the TUN button in Thetis , pin 7 will go to ground and sink the voltage that was on pin 7 at the amp side to close to zero volts?

Is that correct?

Also what is keeping pins 1-4 from going to ground with the default being MOX/TUNE/2TONE because I use those pins for ALS-1306 band select. Is that the EXT Contol Button below the OC pin boxes? Seem lime maybe I can use either the OC pins or the transmit pins, not both.


However your BCD data is set already, that's fine.

If you're going to use pin 7 to key the amp, stick an RCA on the output of pin 7. Run that to the amplifier. Set transmit Pin 7 to be asserted during MOX and 2 Tone only, for the bands you wish to use the amplifier on. Enable xPA for Pin 7 tx, for the additional feature of being able to deselect amp keying via software button.

Now to control the tuner, use transmit Pin 6. Action TUNE only. Set bands you wish to control the tuner on. Connect Pin 6 to the correct pin on the tuner interface cable that you build. Now when you hit TUNE, it will pull pin 6 and that should start a tuning cycle.
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Re: Anan 7000DLE MKii to Auto Antenna Tuner

Postby WM4CH » Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:06 pm

rdwing wrote:
WM4CH wrote:On the OC output for the pin I select, say 7, If I select TUNE on the drop down, on transmit using the TUN button in Thetis , pin 7 will go to ground and sink the voltage that was on pin 7 at the amp side to close to zero volts?

Is that correct?

Also what is keeping pins 1-4 from going to ground with the default being MOX/TUNE/2TONE because I use those pins for ALS-1306 band select. Is that the EXT Contol Button below the OC pin boxes? Seem lime maybe I can use either the OC pins or the transmit pins, not both.


However your BCD data is set already, that's fine.

If you're going to use pin 7 to key the amp, stick an RCA on the output of pin 7. Run that to the amplifier. Set transmit Pin 7 to be asserted during MOX and 2 Tone only, for the bands you wish to use the amplifier on. Enable xPA for Pin 7 tx, for the additional feature of being able to deselect amp keying via software button.

Now to control the tuner, use transmit Pin 6. Action TUNE only. Set bands you wish to control the tuner on. Connect Pin 6 to the correct pin on the tuner interface cable that you build. Now when you hit TUNE, it will pull pin 6 and that should start a tuning cycle.



Thank you very much.

My main point of confusion was that for the band data pins 1-4 , I had the same Transmit pins checked as the receive pins. but I think checking the Transmit pins was a mistake, I apparently it doesn't need them, the band data works without the band data on the transmit pins. I don't seem to have damaged anything doing that. But i don't know.

I plan to run pin 7 to an RCA for keying but running it to the 998 tuner to preserve high SWR interrupt the tuner provides.

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