7000dle mkII - low output power

User avatar
ramdor
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:07 pm
Contact:

7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby ramdor » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:51 pm

Hey all,

I have noticed a possible issue with my 7000dleMk2 that has been there since new, but has not really been that important to me as it is normally run through an external linear amplifier. However, curiosity has got the better of me hence the post.

I have been unable to achieve 100w on the 10m, 12m and 17m bands using the PA gain settings into a calibrated load/meter. All other bands reach 100w easily. Has anyone else noticed this? Running P2 v2.0b 10 Feb 2020 , 64bit Thetis v2.8.11.

Cheers, Richie. MW0LGE

6m - 100w
10m - 70w
12m - 90w
15m - 100w
17m - 75w
20m - 100w
30m - 100w
40m - 100w
60m - 100w
80m - 100w
160m - 100w

pa_gain.jpg
pa_gain.jpg (23.76 KiB) Viewed 4858 times
Last edited by ramdor on Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
K1LSB
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:25 pm

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby K1LSB » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:54 pm

I've had to significantly alter some of the default settings in the PA Gain screen but I'm getting 100 watts out on all bands with the settings shown here:

PA Settings - Gain.PNG
PA Settings - Gain.PNG (122.79 KiB) Viewed 4847 times

Mark
User avatar
ramdor
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:07 pm
Contact:

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby ramdor » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:59 pm

Interesting Mark. My 7000dle MKII is the one in the large silver case with the two handles. I am unable to get 100w on the three bands mentioned. It just seemingly hits a hard stop limit when adjusting the PA gain values. I then back it down 5w or so. Somewhat strange, but has been there since 1st calibration when it was new.

Richie.
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5540
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:04 am

Hi Richie! Great to see you posting again!

I wonder if it is possibly related to this problem: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3711&p=13637&hilit=Filter#p13637
User avatar
ramdor
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:07 pm
Contact:

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby ramdor » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:26 pm

Hi Scott,

Yep, has been a while. Hope all is well.

Yes very interesting read. I did have play with the cut off points for each LPF but couldn't really identify a software issue as being the cause, either being incorrectly selected or some other issue. I am tempted to buzz them through the vna to check them but need to find time to pull it to bits to check.

Cheers,

Richie.
User avatar
W9BHI
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Serena Il.

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby W9BHI » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:38 am

Richie,
I had the same problem with my blue face 7000DLE.
I sent it to Doug for repair and he told me that he had to adjust the values of the inductors in the low pass filter to get these bands up in power.
He said this was a problem on some units.
10, 12 and 17 can now do 100 watts.
Thanks,
Don W9BHI
User avatar
W1AEX
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:17 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA
Contact:

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby W1AEX » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:22 pm

Hi Richie,

I would agree with what Don mentioned above in the thread. This can be an indication of a filter that is not optimized for a particular band, or it could possibly be damaged. One pretty good tell is to look at the total current draw from the power supply when a band that can produce rated power is putting out 100 watts. Then take a look at the total current draw from a band that is unable to attain 100 watts output. If the current draw for a band that can't get to 100 watts is as high or higher as bands making 100 watts it can be an indication of inefficiency in the filters.

That being said, my ANAN-100 (no longer mine) and my ANAN-200D both pull loads of current (around 30 amps) on 6 meters if I pushed them to do 100 watts of carrier output. To avoid melting the fuse holder I set those bands for 50 watts maximum. I suspect things are typically less efficient on the higher bands and this is especially so on 6 meters.

73, Rob W1AEX
"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."
User avatar
KA1GXR
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:53 pm
Location: ASHLAND MA

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby KA1GXR » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:14 pm

Rob:
I had this experience first year I had my 200D. Was OK then low to very low power 10/12 meters at least. Doug had to replace entire filter board as an inductor cooked a nasty scorch in it.

Use an 8000 also no power issues.

Hope you sort this out Richie.

Tom
KA1GXR
User avatar
rbduck
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:49 pm

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby rbduck » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:56 pm

Richie,
I'm running a black 7000DLE That I received new in December of 2019. I'm running Thetis 2.8.11.16711 . I'm also using firmware version P2 v2.0b 10 Feb 2020. I checked my levels on those three bands. I had to bump them up a little to get 100 watts , but it adjusted easily. I hope you get your issue corrected without having to send it for repairs. My settings ended up being very similar to Marks.
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
rdwing
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 2:05 am

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby rdwing » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:03 pm

Edit: Upon further testing, something strange might be happening with the dummy load. The SWR is low and the VNA shows it's fine, but it doesn't seem to like 6m from the radio. Still though, power is somewhat reduced (50W) at the higher end of 6m when going into the tuner.

I'd like to bring this up again. Received a 7000 DLE Mk3. I recently stepped through the PA calibration steps, and the transceiver is making good power, except on 6m.

The following has been observed on both dummy load and antenna. All power numbers are with the drive set to 100W, and measured via tune CW.

From 50.000 to 50.400 I have full power available, 100W, then it starts to decrease, reaching 90W by 50.800. It continues to decrease past that. At 51.200 it's down to 80W, 75W at 51.5, 65W at 52.000, 47W at 53.000, all the way down to 35W at 53.900.

If I crank the PA cal on 6m I can get a little more power out but the amperage draw goes way high. I am supplying the radio with a regulated 35A continuous SMPS and short 10 gauge wire.

It sounds like this might be a manufacturing defect? An incorrect inductor? Does anyone have a new Mk3 they can check with?

I get a very strange graph from PS on 6m also, this is at 50W 2-tone into a dummy.
Screenshot 2022-07-26 140744.png
Screenshot 2022-07-26 140744.png (38.43 KiB) Viewed 3022 times
rdwing
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 2:05 am

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby rdwing » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:59 am

Bumping this...on my examply 6m transmit is super flaky. It generally down on power on the entire 6m band. Sometimes after hitting TUN it will xmit for a few seconds, then cut out with no power. Trying TUN a few more times might get it to transmit again, maybe not.
I have noticed that when this happens, the radio loses frequency lock and the calibration will be off. Hard cycling the transceiver recovers it.
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5540
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:44 pm

rdwing wrote:Bumping this...on my examply 6m transmit is super flaky. It generally down on power on the entire 6m band. Sometimes after hitting TUN it will xmit for a few seconds, then cut out with no power. Trying TUN a few more times might get it to transmit again, maybe not.
I have noticed that when this happens, the radio loses frequency lock and the calibration will be off. Hard cycling the transceiver recovers it.
These are all indications of bad SWR and/or a high level of RF on the shield of the coaxial cable causing RFI in the system. If you have the SWR protection enabled (Setup > General > Ant/Filters > Antenna) that may be part of it as well.

The dotted green and yellow lines in the AmpView display are indicative of bad feedback data. There is further evidence of this in the wavy green and red correction lines, they should be smooth. Again, these are all symptoms of a lot of RFI, a lot of RF on the coaxial shield, and that sort of thing.

It might be time to take a careful look at what is going on with the station as a whole, not just with the ANAN hardware. Grounding, bonding, absorption (ferrites on coax), SWR, connections, etc.
rdwing
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 2:05 am

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby rdwing » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:11 pm

Right, so I found a bad PL259 and fixed that, I believe that was the cause of that Puresignal graph. That's been fixed now.

Still though, the low power output issue still exists. Both dummy loads have been analyzed on a VNA and they are fine, but I had purchased a second just to eliminate it as a factor. They are connected to the transceiver using 12" jumpers. The entire station has substantial choking and RF protection.

Something is wrong with this. I don't have any explanation on why PA cuts out or why its incapable of reaching 100W, unless I'm missing something.

Screenshot 2022-08-02 112144.png
Screenshot 2022-08-02 112144.png (244.94 KiB) Viewed 2740 times
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5540
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:53 pm

The AmpView data looks a LOT better!

This is only a problem for you on 6M, correct?

If so, I'd recommend you contact the factory and/or US service (Doug, W5WC). It could be a fault with the 6M TX LPF.
MichaelCaditz
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:42 am

Re: 7000dle mkII - low output power

Postby MichaelCaditz » Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:14 am

Did this get resolved? I'm having a similar problem with brand new 7000DLE, on 6m only. Max power output is 37 Watts.

Return to “Everything Else: Antennas, Relays, Switches, Power, Grounding, Cooling, etc.”