UI lockup during tune

KJ7WCQ
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UI lockup during tune

Postby KJ7WCQ » Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:21 pm

I am using an ANAN 7000DLE MKII with embedded i7 board. I've had a lot of boot issues with that embedded board which was fixed by some carefully located pieces of electrical tape, but that's for another thread. My main issue is that the UI locks up and gets stuck in transmit mode when using TUN. I am unable to shut the program down even if I have a task manager window open. I can't even navigate to task manager as Thetis keeps stealing focus. I am using version 2.9.0 but the issue occurs with the previous release as well. It doesn't happen on all bands either, but will lock up on 40m every time. I have tune power set to 12 so it's enough to trigger my KAT500 tuner. I assume I have something set up wrong, but am at a loss. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Peter
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w-u-2-o
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:19 pm

This is almost definitely an RFI problem and not a Thetis problem, and once we determine that the topic will probably get moved out of the Thetis sub-forum.

I'd like to hear about the boot issues, just in case they are related.

Thetis should never steal focus back, ever. That's an indication of something badly wrong.

Does this only happen during antenna tuning? Never again once the antenna is tuned?

When you get RFI only during antenna tuner operation, and only on certain bands, that just screams RFI, and it screams that the antenna impedance and SWR conditions during tuning on those bands are causing significant radiation in the shack, often from the shields of the coaxial cables. This can be mitigated by means of properly located and configured RF chokes. Fixing this with a load of snap-on type 31 ferrites in strategic places is a classic fix.

Please describe your antenna and feedline provisions on the bands where this is happening. Please also describe the bonding and grounding provisions of your station.

In the world of quick fixes, a half dozen ferrites on the coax at the antenna port on the tuner, and changing to a wireless keyboard and mouse can help a lot.
w9mdb
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby w9mdb » Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:29 pm

Please describe your shack grounding system in detail.

And are you using a desktop or laptop?
Mike W9MDB
KJ7WCQ
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby KJ7WCQ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:36 am

I've fiddled with this a bit more and it does certainly look like an RFI problem. I have never had issues during transmit. After a bit more experimentation I noticed that the keyboard and mouse behavior gets very wonky (wired USB), which is why the UI on the whole system doesn't respond correctly. I've used every ferrite I have and it still occurs but I need to order some more. I have tried to switch to using bluetooth but that isn't working correctly either on this system, so I'm in the process of debugging that.

I don't have a dedicated shack ground, but all of the equipment is bonded together. The antenna is grounded and lightning protected. The antenna is the same for all bands as it is a SteppIR SmallIR.

I thought the issue could be exacerbated by the fact that I have an RF sampler in between the amp and the tuner for PureSignal use, but I get the same issue running barefoot.

As for the boot issues, there were two main problems:

1. The POST screen would randomly not show up, making it impossible to alter BIOS settings. This was corrected by replacing the USB hub provided with the radio with a more recognizable brand.
2. The system would randomly not boot at all. Based on the power LED flash code the error was a power-on test failure. I found that if I backed out the board mounting screws and lifted the board a bit it would start up fine, so I suspected that something was getting grounded that shouldn't be. Small nylon washers on mounting posts didn't fix it. I did notice that one post was quite close to the SSD board contacts. Also the rear mic jack which is mounted on the board has a center contact that sticks out a bit, and I thought that might be touching the chassis. I put pieces of electrical tape over these two areas and haven't had a boot problem since.
PD3LK
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby PD3LK » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:23 am

Try a search at the top on "Cat7".
r/Leon
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ramdor
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby ramdor » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:54 pm

remove everything, connect the radio into a dummy load on known good patch/coax. As it is an embedded version just connect psu, keyboard and mouse. If that fails any test on any band up to 100w in that basic setup get it back to Anan pronto.

I've had a lot of boot issues with that embedded board which was fixed by some carefully located pieces of electrical tape, but that's for another thread


and this sounds far from normal or acceptable tbh.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:23 pm

I'm with Richie regarding any shoddy workmanship or design. Sadly, pragmatism might rule out over ceremony in terms of having a radio available.

Anyhow, I reiterate my previous recommendations: ferrites chokes on the coaxial cable, ground your station, and switch to a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. The Bluetooth stuff is terrible. You can get a Logitech wireless keyboard/mouse combo for $20 on Amazon.

You did not describe your antenna or feedline. There may be some improvements to be made there. What kind of antenna, where is it located, what kind of feedline?

Also, moving this topic to the "Everything else" sub-forum as it is not Thetis related.
KJ7WCQ
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby KJ7WCQ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:56 pm

Regarding my antenna and feed line:

My antenna is a SteppIR SmallIR mounted on my roof peak. It is fed by ~75 ft. of 400MAX coax from DX Engineering. All interconnects between radio, amp and tuner are 3ft. runs of RG400, also from DX.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:03 pm

If you are using a SmallIR then why is there a KAT500 antenna tuner involved at all? There is no antenna tuner required with that antenna. That could very well be a major part of your problem.
KJ7WCQ
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby KJ7WCQ » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:35 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:If you are using a SmallIR then why is there a KAT500 antenna tuner involved at all? There is no antenna tuner required with that antenna. That could very well be a major part of your problem.


The antenna is sensitive to elevation and radial setup, and there is a limited amount of adjustment that can be made per-band. On some bands yes, you don't need a tuner, on some the SWR is still too high, in particular 40m and 80m which use the loading coils. When I was running just my K3S I used this tuner as well as the built-in tuner before I bought the amp, and never had any issues. I am interested in how the tuner could be related to RFI issues during tune.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:47 pm

When tuning, especially with an autotuner like the KAT500, there may be times when the mismatch is quite high. This can lead to reflections and RF currents flowing on the shield of the coaxial cable. These currents can then cause RF to radiate from the coaxial cable or to be conducted off the shield into other equipment. This can be especially problematic if it occurs in the shack.

Since tuning is usually done at low power levels this isn't normally a problem. But sometimes it is!

In such a case one must rely on grounding and bonding to channel (conducted RFI) or shield (radiated RFI) these currents, absorbers (chokes, ferrites) to mitigate currents on the shield of the coax, and hardening (e.g. going to a wireless keyboard and mouse) to solve the problem.
KJ7WCQ
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Re: UI lockup during tune

Postby KJ7WCQ » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:51 am

After several attempts I gave up on the bluetooth - it seems particularly poor on the Intel NUC. I set up a mouse with the Logitech receiver dongle, ran a tune and didn't have any issues, so thanks for that suggestion!

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