New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby W1JA » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:59 pm

I just arrived to this party, with my 200D. I previously had been using Orion_NP_v1.8_pre2.rbf, dated Apr 16 2019. From time to time I suspected there were issues with this firmware (like intermittent Pure Signal, occasional audio dropouts, etc.) but after applying the fix in the Windows 10 Network Throttling Problem thread (https://apache-labs.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3787), all the issues disappeared, and they were not firmware-related after all.

So, even though v1.8_pre2 was working fine on my 200D, here I am testing v1.9.15 (I skipped v1.9_pre4). I tested PS on several bands and power levels, tried various sample rates, lots of test transmitting on various modes to a dummy load. No issues found so far. I'll continue to use and test v1.9.15 until there's another posted version.

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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby G3ZQH » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:38 pm

Hi Rick

Thanks for your help with this .

PureSignal problem has disappeared after bricking and re-loading FW for my 200D!

I bricked my 200D when re-loading the firmware to look for seq errors. I had to use Bootloader (and jumper) to re-discover the board and re-load the firmware. Then I re-tried PureSignal using 1.9.15 and 1.9.16. Success! Both now work perfectly on all bands 10-160m. Very quick to give almost instant PS correction. Also the generated two-tone signal had a much cleaner spectrum than before. So, I guess that something had become corrupted in my FW and using the Bootloader (rather than HPSDR Programmer) has resolved the problem.

There were no sequence errors reported in 1.9pre4, 1.9.15 or 1.9.16 when using PS.

73 Dave G3ZQH
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:51 pm

I have not had good luck and consistent results with the P2 version of HPSDR Programmer. It's worth adding a bootloader switch on models that do not have one. I thought the 200D had one on the bottom?
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:53 pm

@vk1hx

Phil, maybe you could have your mate try it again using bootloader?
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:23 am

w-u-2-o wrote:@vk1hx

Phil, maybe you could have your mate try it again using bootloader?


Hi Scott,

Yes we only load the firmware using Bootloader. I am not sure about jumpers on the 200D? We have bootloader switches under the bottom of the ANAN. It was standard on all 200D's I thought.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:54 am

Ok, so that's interesting. It doesn't sound like a Rev 16 vs. 24 thing, then, since there is at least one person with a Rev 16 board that has 1.9.15 working.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:34 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Ok, so that's interesting. It doesn't sound like a Rev 16 vs. 24 thing, then, since there is at least one person with a Rev 16 board that has 1.9.15 working.


You might be right. When we have some time later this afternoon, will try and reload the 1.9.16 and retest. There was defiantly and issue with RX attenuation after TX while running 1.9.15, Rick fixed that issue with 1.9.16. The other major issue experienced was erratic SWR activity causing the AMP to trip out of operate mode. This issue was also present in a previous P2 version (Orion 1.7). The other issue in 1.9.16 was PS not consistently stable (not correcting etc). Tried DB reset also to rule out any corruption.

Even though there are these issues for 1.9.15 and 16, we did not experience any seq errors.

Not sure if we've tried 1.9.14_pre4 before so we'll give that a go also.
Last edited by vk1hx on Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:33 am

Some further testing on my mates 200D this afternoon.

P2 FW / Orion_1.9_pre4 works ok. Only now and then do you have to toggle the PS button for PS to engage. Overall pretty good on all bands.

Reloaded P2 FW / Orion_1.9.16 again. Identified a kind of audio artifact/tale after talking but still keeping the MOX button on. Its almost like and over modulation noise/hiss. This is the issue I was getting on my 200D previously only worse. Anyway, its this artifact that trips out/sends a high SWR reading to the SPE 1.3K FA amplifier out of operate mode and the buffer alarm states high SWR.

I did take a screen shot of the tail artifact on TX.

image_0.JPG
image_0.JPG (31.12 KiB) Viewed 16732 times


image_1.JPG
image_1.JPG (31.97 KiB) Viewed 16732 times
Last edited by vk1hx on Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby G3ZQH » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:49 am

Further update on PureSignal with my 200D using new versions of FW.

I referred to a 'jumper' but I meant the jumper switch on the base of the 200D.

Checked again this morning only to find that 1.9.15 and 1.9.16 did not work with PureSignal any more. They had both reverted to the same problems as I has seen before. So the success was short lived and seemed to last just for the few tests that I did (literally a few minutes using 2-Tone). I tried the usual PS ON/OFF and power cycling the rig but this did not restore PS function. However, 1.9pre4 still works well and is stable, so I have reverted to that for now on my 200D.

I don't understand the complexities of PS but it seems that something is being corrupted after a few uses of PS in 1.9.15 and 1.9.16. I believe others have noted this before in previous FW versions.

I'm happy to do further tests if needed.

73 Dave G3ZQH
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:58 am

Thanks for the update Dave, yes we noted a short session of success before it all went downhill on my mates 200D. He is using the same firmware you reverted back to with success.

Thanks for putting the effort in and reporting back on your findings.

73' Phil - VK1HX
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:44 am

It's very unlikely anything is being "corrupted". However, this could very well be a thermally related issue.

Would you check to see if things work well with a cold rig and only go awry once the hardware has heated up a bit?
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:00 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:It's very unlikely anything is being "corrupted". However, this could very well be a thermally related issue.

Would you check to see if things work well with a cold rig and only go awry once the hardware has heated up a bit?


Scott, I kind of agree on the thermal theory as a cause, the symptoms have similar characteristics to what I was experiencing with earlier P2 FW, only my ANAN would come good once everything had been running for an hour, not just powered on at the rig switch, but had network data flowing. This seems to be the revers. The short time take before all goes haywire might be due to slight temp drops in the ANAN during programming etc.

I am not able to the temp test at present due to not being in control of the ANAN. :) 1.9_pre4 FW has been loaded back in and the owner seems to be happy with that for the moment, although at first PS is a little slow to pick up. Once it finds the right setting no problems. Maybe Dave might be able to do a cold firmware install and test.
Last edited by vk1hx on Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby W1JA » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:06 pm

W1JA wrote:I tested PS on several bands and power levels, tried various sample rates, lots of test transmitting on various modes to a dummy load. No issues found so far.
I spoke way too soon. I have discovered lots of transmit problems, CW and digital (VAC). There is wideband hash transmitted along with a CW carrier and digital tones. It's worst on 10 and 6 meters, almost unnoticeable on 160, for example. It's down 40 to 60 dBc and exists as far as I can see on the panadapter zoomed all the way out (hundreds of kHz). Transmitting on 6m and listening on another receiver, I can clearly hear it over all HF (even down to 1.8 MHz), albeit reducing in amplitude on the way down. It's not white noise; zooming in with the panadapter reveals thousands of discrete carriers of varying amplitudes and stable frequencies.

I returned to v1.8_pre2 and verified that none of this spurious energy is present.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:41 pm

W1JA wrote:I returned to v1.8_pre2 and verified that none of this spurious energy is present.


Hi John,

I don't know of the v1.8_pre2 FW. Would you mind sending me a copy of it please? Not sure if you can send me an email from this forum, my email on QRZ is correct though. Appreciate it if you can.
Last edited by vk1hx on Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby W1JA » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:20 am

Phil,

Email sent. I hope it helps.

73, John
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:36 am

W1JA wrote:Phil,

Email sent. I hope it helps.

73, John


Got it. Thank you.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby G3ZQH » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:59 am

w-u-2-o wrote:It's very unlikely anything is being "corrupted". However, this could very well be a thermally related issue.

Would you check to see if things work well with a cold rig and only go awry once the hardware has heated up a bit?


I tried with a cold rig using 1.9.16. PS was good on all bands. I 'warmed' the rig by TXing (so it was warm to the hand) and PS was still good. After 30 minutes all was still OK. Then, I left the rig on overnight and tried PS again. This time it failed on all bands. So, there is a certainly a time factor involved but less clear if it is a thermal effect since PS did work well in the warm rig. Possibly some other slower warming of an internal board?

73 Dave G3ZQH
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby ramdor » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:59 am

G3ZQH wrote:
w-u-2-o wrote:It's very unlikely anything is being "corrupted". However, this could very well be a thermally related issue.

Would you check to see if things work well with a cold rig and only go awry once the hardware has heated up a bit?


I tried with a cold rig using 1.9.16. PS was good on all bands. I 'warmed' the rig by TXing (so it was warm to the hand) and PS was still good. After 30 minutes all was still OK. Then, I left the rig on overnight and tried PS again. This time it failed on all bands. So, there is a certainly a time factor involved but less clear if it is a thermal effect since PS did work well in the warm rig. Possibly some other slower warming of an internal board?

73 Dave G3ZQH


hi Dave, couple of things...

1) during the overnight test, was client software left connected?
2) did you try restarting client software
3) did you try power cycling the radio?

Just trying gain some extra info to work out if it is heat or perhaps firmware/client state related.

Cheers, Richie.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby G3ZQH » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:11 pm

hi Dave, couple of things...

1) during the overnight test, was client software left connected?

[i]Yes rig ON and Thetis running.


2) did you try restarting client software
Yes, it had no effect

3) did you try power cycling the radio?
Yes, it had no effect

A further check with same installation of 1.9.16. I switched the rig OFF overnight. In the morning I ran PS again and it did not work despite being cool.

I am beginning to think that the PS problem is not heat related at all.


Just trying gain some extra info to work out if it is heat or perhaps firmware/client state related.

Cheers, Richie[/i]
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby G3ZQH » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:12 pm

Hi Richie- Sorry the previous message did not format well! I hope you can make out my responses
73 Dave
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby FM5GB » Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:45 pm

Hi All !
I flashed Metis_Orion_NP_v1.9.15.rbf on my 200D which was almost working well with Orion_NP_v1.9_pre3metis.rbf. (rare PS not kicking in).
I whish I had never done this !
The change made Thetis (base version 2.8.11 10.20.20) hang almost immediately after startup.
When I reverted to v1.9_pre3metis things where the same. Even after a new Thetis install (version x86 & 64) from scratch (even killing the wisdom files) this didn't any change.
So I went back to P1 and PowerSDR to be able to use my radio again. That worked as it did in ancient times.
Then I reflashed v1.9_pre3metis and guess what : hanging after a few seconds displaying always the same message (to be red quickly) : Seq=>264 (DDC 2Mic). (occurs on both 32 & 64 bit versions)

I confess I had a browse thru the Flex catalog being too old to spend my time on such a mess.

What now ?

73s Phil FM5GB
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:01 am

Delete or rename C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\OpenHPSDR\, then start over with a new installation of Thetis.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby FM5GB » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 am

Hi Scott,

that's exactly what I did.

But no luck so far...

73s
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:17 am

You have to move the ANAN to get to the bootloader switch, right? Grasping at straws: maybe you have a sketchy Ethernet cable that is now in a bad position. It works ok for 100mbit, but not for GigE.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby FM5GB » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:49 am

Negative,

I reboxed the Anan boards and installed a bootloader switch on the front panel so I can run bootloader without moving the
rack in which the radio is installed. The ethernet cable is a new high grade CAT6 cable. Maybe the ethernet socket on the Orion board is faulty
but I doubt.
All the trouble began when I flashed v1.9_15. (without physically moving anything).
The only way to get the radio back to work was flashing a P1 FW. Now having both Thetis 2.8.11 32 & 64 and PowerSDR running (of course at reduced capability)

Please understand I'm getting fed up with this.

73s
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby vk1hx » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:00 pm

I would load Metis_Orion_NP_v1.9_pre4.rbf (link to FW download in the opening message on page 1 of this thread).
Last edited by vk1hx on Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby FM5GB » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:53 pm

Hi

I tried several ethernet CAT6 cables : no difference as the piece is hanging after various times (usually 4 - 5 seconds); Still displaying a seq error (mostly Seq=>264 (DDC 2Mic), sometimes Seq8).
Is there any way to test the ethernet port on the Orion board without having to open the box ?
Since I have flashed this 1.9_15 FW the only way to make the radio work again is to revert to protocol 1. Reverting to any other protocol 2 FW would
fail too.

Phil FM5GB

73s
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby W1AEX » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:16 pm

Hi Phil,

Sorry you are having issues now with your 200D and protocol 2. It's very strange that the previously working P2 versions are now giving you issues that were not there before and my thought is that it strongly suggests that something other than the firmware itself is causing the issue since flashing from one version to another does not leave any traces of the former firmware.

With any P2 firmware you can (without Thetis running) ping the ANAN's IP address and see if it responds 100%. Note that versions before 1.9.15 will probably stop responding after around 10 successful pings. This was fixed with Orion firmware version 1.9.15 so that it should respond continuously. My 200D will reliably respond to ping 100% all day long with v1.9.15 so pinging might be a low-level indication of the quality of the communication between your PC and the PHY chip in your Orion board.

As you know, all Orion boards are slightly different but my report to Rick was that my very fussy Orion board was performing 100% with v1.9.15 with all sampling rates and for the first time I see PS engaging flawlessly on all bands from 160-6 meters from a cold-start through the full thermal range during operating sessions. Hope the issue you are seeing is an easy one to resolve.

73, Rob W1AEX

command line: ping -t IPaddress

(Note: I really enjoyed your re-boxing of the ANAN on your QRZ page. Very nice layout!)

ping -t 192.168.5.2
Image
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby FM5GB » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:55 pm

Hi Rob,
Culprit found ?

I am still testing extensively and guess what ? Even with Protocol 1FW I have seen some hangings (though very few) in Thetis (2.8.11 10/20/20). I was fearing a hardware issue or maybe a thermal issue (as you know it is pretty hot down here in the Caribbean).

When pinging continuously the rig's address it responded normally in Protocol 1 (no error message).

Same procedure with Protocol 2 and radio powered : there is an error message every 2 to 4 ping request.
Every time there is a drop I can hear a very slight crack in my speaker. Looking at the ammeter (which I never did before) I notice a drop in current intensity at the very same moment. When Thetis freezes It is the same thing but only once thus very difficult to catch.
So pinging did help a lot to identify what I believe is a hardware issue. I was also well inspired to mount an ammeter on the front panel.
Note when the radio is powered with Thetis not launched there is no trouble (very very rare current drops).

I am preparing to investigate especially the power rails to the Orion board hoping there is no major issue on this SMD jobbie.
I'll keep you informed.

Thank you Rob for being concerned by a lost guy in the French Windward Islands where the pandemic is getting very tough these days.

Best 73s Phil FM5GB
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Re: New 200D Orion Protocol 2 Firmware Topic

Postby G3ZQH » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:45 pm

Hi Phil
I'm not sure if this is relevant for your problem but I had a strange fault a few years ago with my 200D which I eventually traced to a bad PCB joint on the front panel LAN ethernet socket. Most likely this was caused by side-strain on the socket since my ethernet cable was a bit short (replaced since!) and was inserted at a slight angle. After re-soldering all has been fine since.

These problems can be very frustrating and I have lots of sympathies for your situation having been there myself several times. But we know that we are 'on the edge' in terms of performance and features and there is always help on this forum.

Good luck and I hope you will have the rig running soon.

73 Dave G3ZQH

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