Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

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IK2LRN
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Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby IK2LRN » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:17 pm

Someone knows if Intel have clarified when intend to render available again the FPGA Cyclone IV ?
Mouser and Digikey still do not accept preorders and prices in the unofficial chinese market are became foolish.


Thanks, 73
Luca IK2LRN
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby administrator » Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:30 am

Hello Luca,

The Cyclone IV FPGAs are under hard allocation from Intel, which means that there is no delivery date commitment from Intel.

Cheers,

Tony
VK-JOE
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby VK-JOE » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:40 am

There are still some good deals for a Cyclone IV devices - obviously not for for volume production runs.

I have noted just a few here from Aliexpress;-

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32504384813.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32812982101.html


You need to do your research for a reputable supplier (the above seem to be OK)

For me this is still good value - it gives me access to the Cyclone iV and in a convenient development board with additional HW which I would need to integrate on my "board" anyway.

For prototyping this is acceptable for me - your milage might vary.

If you have a "rework station" can lift the Cyclone IV and integrate on your board / design.

Just don't give up - still poddible to get dome devices for under US$50

Take care
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:11 am

Both of those are the wrong part number. Heck, one of them isn't even a BGA package. And nobody in their right mind would attempt to pull and reball a large package like this for production.

IMHO Intel has EOL'd most of the Cyclone IV line and just hasn't decided to make it official, yet. A recent Flex Radio interview said their FPGA delivery times were pushing out past 70 weeks! And that's for something you can actually order. Intel is not accepting orders for many parts right now, including the original Orion FPGA.
IK2LRN
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby IK2LRN » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:19 pm

Thanks for your reply,
which are the unofficial rumors about the Cyclone IV
lifecycle? How Apache Labs can schedule the production if the FPGA availability is unclear?
Thanks, 73
Luca IK2LRN
Italia
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:36 pm

IK2LRN wrote:Thanks for your reply,
which are the unofficial rumors about the Cyclone IV
lifecycle?
I'm just repeating the "unofficial rumors" that I've heard and adding on top of that my own 40 years experience in the electronics manufacturing business.
How Apache Labs can schedule the production if the FPGA availability is unclear?
Obviously Apache is going to great lengths to develop parts substitutions as necessary, as is clearly evident in what they did/what they had to do to deliver new 7000 and Andromeda units, i.e. the so-called "Orion MKIII" board with alternate FPGA (see this topic if you haven't already: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4266). But your point is well taken: it is extremely difficult right now for ALL electronics manufacturers to schedule production, much less meet production needs. This is why there are shortages in all manufacturing sectors, with perhaps the automotive industry being the most visible example.

Disclaimer: I just help moderate this forum. I am not an Apache employee and have no fiduciary relationship with Apache.
VK-JOE
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby VK-JOE » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:17 am

@ w-u-2-o

Hi Scott,
Sure, the suggestions I made are purely for personal development / experimentation – not intended for production.
Not sure what Luca was seeking – I only assumed it was for experimentation purposes.
If it was for an alternative supply to help Apache-labs – my suggestion is not a solution.

There are however various sources available via AliExpress – but the problem is to make sure these are genuine parts and the AliExpress seller can be trusted.

Just as quick search for the EP4CGX150DF31C7N – revealed the following; -

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803882024661.html - reasonable price if genuine part
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804502457526.html - TOO CHEAP - FAKE MOST LIKELY – but you never know sometimes they don’t know what they are selling. The supplier looks suspicious however – no history!
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800808791173.html - they give guarantee (for what it’s worth) – if genuine – not a bad price.

You will need full time “specialist” to hunt for genuine parts from reputable supplier(s) and then if its at an acceptable price.

Yeah, it’s a difficult situation with EOL components – I don’t envy Abhi (Apache-Labs) in the situation they are in. Sooner or later a decision will need to be made for alternative (new) components - this needs to be addressed with new firmware and possible software changes.

If there is a coordinated effort by the community – perhaps we can all get through the dilemma associated with EOL components and come out with a new design iteration which will give the product another 10+ years of life.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:56 am

VK-JOE wrote: Sooner or later a decision will need to be made for alternative (new) components - this needs to be addressed with new firmware and possible software changes.
You must be aware that Apache has already done exactly that? And that this is probably the third or fourth obsolescence/supply chain driven BOM revision for the Orion MKII board already?
Aivars
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby Aivars » Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:24 pm

I can share some experience about the mentioned problem   ;)  As I must deal with EP4CE115F29I7N, the only source appears to be Aliexpress. But not, a bit later about   8-)  This one BGA highly differs in appearance on Aliexpress. Some of them look fake, but they work like a charm and vice versa   :cry:  Last year the price on this BGA was around 30USD, plus minus. Then in summer it starts to rise, when this spring reaches actual crazy prices. But there is another problem. I don't know where Aliexpress got their chips, but there are a lot of defective  :evil:  My personal experience is two in row from a "reputable" seller with 100% feedback. And I know two more such cases. For actual prices it is highly painful   :cry: Lucky for me, I jump in the last cheap train   :lol:  OK, I need those chips, what to do   :roll:  OK, let's try Alibaba   8-)  Bingo, there are a lot of cheaper offers. Even for 50EUR for a piece, but... refurbished. Very high risk. So finally I found nice looking chips for 185EUR with delivery and taxes   8-)  Just I hadn't time to check it. I.e. solder the board and test it, just BGA are in place   ;)
Prices on other parts are just crazy as well   :cry:  If just price, but counterfeit chips as well   :evil:  Three LMZ22005TZX burn out in row. Check actual prices... When I order a replacement from another seller, that chips highly differs. Replacement works much better   8-)
YL2GVC 73!
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:03 pm

When it's hobby time and you are willing to risk both your entire circuit card assembly (CCA) and willing to undergo multiple BGA rework cycles to get it right, then you can buy from places like Ali-whatever and play the dangerous game of "is it real, is it fake, is it working, etc?"

When you are a manufacturer who has to get it right the first time, every time, in order to make money, then that's simply not an option. The costs of rework are simply too high. The dangers that you might lose an entire board during BGA rework are too high. And if bad product makes it out into the marketplace the costs of a sullied reputation are far too high.

The Cyclone IV line is very old. As painful as it might be for everyone to have even more versions of firmware out there, it might be time to move to a newer family of FPGAs.
Aivars
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Re: Intel FPGA CYLONE IV Availability

Postby Aivars » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:51 pm

I forget to mention, I didn't mean big batch building. I mean hobby at home, or very small batch ;) In such a case, there are no problem to resolder to good one or just forget about that board. Because I have partly soldered boards with most small parts presoldered. I start with BGA, check feed lines at first, if everything appears good, proceed further with other parts 8-)
YL2GVC 73!

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