Hello, W1SWL here.
Current rig is Yaesu FTdx101MP -> RFKIT RF2K-s amp and three antennas.
In looking at the Apache Labs transceiver offerings I am a bit confused regarding which ANAN transceiver is the latest and most advanced.
I am NOT interested in a 500W output transceiver as I already have a fine amplifier in the RF2K-S.
So that said, which 100W ANAN transciever is the latest or most recent?
Second, on some models I see that Apache offers a choice of chips, is the I7 chipset worth it? And for those with an I5 do you wish for a compute engine that is more robust? And if so where does this speed show up or manifest itself?
Third, there is some discussion of a cooling "FAN" accessory but I cannot find that offered for sale. And is it "needed"? Is the fan auto sensing and variable speed?
And lastly, what is the "wait time" in REAL terms by currently shipping models.... I see some are waiting upwards of 5 months after ordering so to set expectations what is real wait time for expectation setting?
Thanks
Art W1SWL
Pre-Sales Questions
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
Disclaimer: I am not an Apache Labs employee, nor do I have any fiduciary relationship with Apache. Since it's very unlikely anyone from Apache will post answers to your questions (Apache people rarely post anything here) I'm taking the liberty of answering and what follows is only my opinion.
Apache's current offerings are all equivalent in terms of RF performance and features. They all use the same core RF and SDR parts. They differ only in amp power, whether or not they have a built-in PC, and whether or not they have a built-in front panel.
Apache's products are not radios by themselves. They are the hardware part of an openHPSDR radio. The boxes you buy from Apache consist primarily of a preselector, antenna switching, SDR board with ADC and DAC, RF amp and TX LPF. The Ethernet interface carries the first IF data to and from the PC. Without the PC and software (Thetis) the box is not, by itself, a radio. Together the PC, software and ANAN box form a radio.
The ANAN-7000DLE is the core unit. MKII and MKIII versions are functionally equivalent, meaning they work the same, one is not better than another. It merely reflects a different hardware revision to account for changes in parts availability. You need an external Windows PC to make this a radio.
According to the website you can buy an ANAN-7000 with a built in Intel NUC PC. It's no different than the basic ANAN-7000. It's for people who want a built-in PC. My personal opinion is this is an expensive way to get a PC, and the PC you get will be more limited and more difficult to upgrade than an external PC. Nevertheless some people like this form factor. IMHO more is better in a PC, the I7 will provide a better operating experience. This is true whether the PC is inside or outside the box.
When specifying a PC, Thetis likes cores. A 6, 8 or even 12 core CPU will make for a better operating experience. Thetis is not RAM hungry, and doesn't care about hard drive performance at all. It is also not very demanding of the graphics interface. You don't need super-gaming GPU. But screen real-estate is nice, particularly when you have other software like loggers running at the same time. Thetis runs very nicely on 4K displays.
Then there is the Andromeda. The Andromeda is, again, a 7000, but this time with a built in PC, a built in PC display, and a custom front panel with knobs and switches. It is designed to provide a more "traditional" radio ergonomic experience. I don't know anyone who doesn't immediately add a keyboard and mouse. And the screen is very small. Nevertheless, some people really like this form factor.
Apache does not sell external fans. The external fan connector is merely a 12VDC convenience outlet. No current Apache products provide a fan controller, all fans run continuously. There are some older variants that had a fan controller, if you are buying a used ANAN you might run across one of those.
Some people need an external fan, some merely prefer one, most don't need one at all. If you are running AM and are long winded you might want an additional fan
If you are running barefoot digital at high power you might want an additional fan. Here's a good thread on external fans: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4285
I can't speak to that. I can only point you back to the relevant threads in this forum.
Finally, I'll add the following: you are buying hardware from Apache. This hardware is based on an open source hardware development project called "openHPSDR". The Apache hardware is a derivative work.
Apache does not create any of the firmware (that runs in the FPGA that is part of the hardware) or the software (nominally Thetis, but there are other client software app's). All of that is done by volunteer, open source developers.
Apache does not create any of the documentation (just the schematics). All of that is also done by open source volunteers.
Apache does do you the favor of loading the original, Protocol 1, firmware so that you can immediately use the hardware on delivery (although there is now at least one confirmed report of a unit showing up with Protocol 2 firmware).
Apache will support you if you have faulty hardware. However, other than hosting a lot of open source documentation and this forum, Apache doesn't really provide any functional support or direct support for firmware or software problems. That's what this forum is for.
It's not the easiest radio to learn or use. But it does things that absolutely no other radio can do. Learn to use it and your receiver will be second to none (at least in the real world, not on Rob Sherwood's test bench) and your transmit audio will be the best audio on the airwaves with the lowest IMD.
W1SWL wrote:In looking at the Apache Labs transceiver offerings I am a bit confused regarding which ANAN transceiver is the latest and most advanced. I am NOT interested in a 500W output transceiver as I already have a fine amplifier in the RF2K-S. So that said, which 100W ANAN transciever is the latest or most recent?
Apache's current offerings are all equivalent in terms of RF performance and features. They all use the same core RF and SDR parts. They differ only in amp power, whether or not they have a built-in PC, and whether or not they have a built-in front panel.
Apache's products are not radios by themselves. They are the hardware part of an openHPSDR radio. The boxes you buy from Apache consist primarily of a preselector, antenna switching, SDR board with ADC and DAC, RF amp and TX LPF. The Ethernet interface carries the first IF data to and from the PC. Without the PC and software (Thetis) the box is not, by itself, a radio. Together the PC, software and ANAN box form a radio.
The ANAN-7000DLE is the core unit. MKII and MKIII versions are functionally equivalent, meaning they work the same, one is not better than another. It merely reflects a different hardware revision to account for changes in parts availability. You need an external Windows PC to make this a radio.
Second, on some models I see that Apache offers a choice of chips, is the I7 chipset worth it? And for those with an I5 do you wish for a compute engine that is more robust? And if so where does this speed show up or manifest itself?
According to the website you can buy an ANAN-7000 with a built in Intel NUC PC. It's no different than the basic ANAN-7000. It's for people who want a built-in PC. My personal opinion is this is an expensive way to get a PC, and the PC you get will be more limited and more difficult to upgrade than an external PC. Nevertheless some people like this form factor. IMHO more is better in a PC, the I7 will provide a better operating experience. This is true whether the PC is inside or outside the box.
When specifying a PC, Thetis likes cores. A 6, 8 or even 12 core CPU will make for a better operating experience. Thetis is not RAM hungry, and doesn't care about hard drive performance at all. It is also not very demanding of the graphics interface. You don't need super-gaming GPU. But screen real-estate is nice, particularly when you have other software like loggers running at the same time. Thetis runs very nicely on 4K displays.
Then there is the Andromeda. The Andromeda is, again, a 7000, but this time with a built in PC, a built in PC display, and a custom front panel with knobs and switches. It is designed to provide a more "traditional" radio ergonomic experience. I don't know anyone who doesn't immediately add a keyboard and mouse. And the screen is very small. Nevertheless, some people really like this form factor.
Third, there is some discussion of a cooling "FAN" accessory but I cannot find that offered for sale. And is it "needed"? Is the fan auto sensing and variable speed?
Apache does not sell external fans. The external fan connector is merely a 12VDC convenience outlet. No current Apache products provide a fan controller, all fans run continuously. There are some older variants that had a fan controller, if you are buying a used ANAN you might run across one of those.
Some people need an external fan, some merely prefer one, most don't need one at all. If you are running AM and are long winded you might want an additional fan
If you are running barefoot digital at high power you might want an additional fan. Here's a good thread on external fans: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4285And lastly, what is the "wait time" in REAL terms by currently shipping models.... I see some are waiting upwards of 5 months after ordering so to set expectations what is real wait time for expectation setting?
I can't speak to that. I can only point you back to the relevant threads in this forum.
Finally, I'll add the following: you are buying hardware from Apache. This hardware is based on an open source hardware development project called "openHPSDR". The Apache hardware is a derivative work.
Apache does not create any of the firmware (that runs in the FPGA that is part of the hardware) or the software (nominally Thetis, but there are other client software app's). All of that is done by volunteer, open source developers.
Apache does not create any of the documentation (just the schematics). All of that is also done by open source volunteers.
Apache does do you the favor of loading the original, Protocol 1, firmware so that you can immediately use the hardware on delivery (although there is now at least one confirmed report of a unit showing up with Protocol 2 firmware).
Apache will support you if you have faulty hardware. However, other than hosting a lot of open source documentation and this forum, Apache doesn't really provide any functional support or direct support for firmware or software problems. That's what this forum is for.
It's not the easiest radio to learn or use. But it does things that absolutely no other radio can do. Learn to use it and your receiver will be second to none (at least in the real world, not on Rob Sherwood's test bench) and your transmit audio will be the best audio on the airwaves with the lowest IMD.
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
WU2O:
Thank you so much for the fantastic reply to my questions! Your reply deserves to be pinned as an aid to newbies like myself. Thanks.
Art W1SWL
Thank you so much for the fantastic reply to my questions! Your reply deserves to be pinned as an aid to newbies like myself. Thanks.
Art W1SWL
-
RTOLEDO2002
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA , USA
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
w-u-2-o wrote:Disclaimer: I am not an Apache Labs employee, nor do I have any fiduciary relationship with Apache. Since it's very unlikely anyone from Apache will post answers to your questions (Apache people rarely post anything here) I'm taking the liberty of answering and what follows is only my opinion.W1SWL wrote:In looking at the Apache Labs transceiver offerings I am a bit confused regarding which ANAN transceiver is the latest and most advanced. I am NOT interested in a 500W output transceiver as I already have a fine amplifier in the RF2K-S. So that said, which 100W ANAN transciever is the latest or most recent?
Apache's current offerings are all equivalent in terms of RF performance and features. They all use the same core RF and SDR parts. They differ only in amp power, whether or not they have a built-in PC, and whether or not they have a built-in front panel.
Apache's products are not radios by themselves. They are the hardware part of an openHPSDR radio. The boxes you buy from Apache consist primarily of a preselector, antenna switching, SDR board with ADC and DAC, RF amp and TX LPF. The Ethernet interface carries the first IF data to and from the PC. Without the PC and software (Thetis) the box is not, by itself, a radio. Together the PC, software and ANAN box form a radio.
The ANAN-7000DLE is the core unit. MKII and MKIII versions are functionally equivalent, meaning they work the same, one is not better than another. It merely reflects a different hardware revision to account for changes in parts availability. You need an external Windows PC to make this a radio.Second, on some models I see that Apache offers a choice of chips, is the I7 chipset worth it? And for those with an I5 do you wish for a compute engine that is more robust? And if so where does this speed show up or manifest itself?
According to the website you can buy an ANAN-7000 with a built in Intel NUC PC. It's no different than the basic ANAN-7000. It's for people who want a built-in PC. My personal opinion is this is an expensive way to get a PC, and the PC you get will be more limited and more difficult to upgrade than an external PC. Nevertheless some people like this form factor. IMHO more is better in a PC, the I7 will provide a better operating experience. This is true whether the PC is inside or outside the box.
When specifying a PC, Thetis likes cores. A 6, 8 or even 12 core CPU will make for a better operating experience. Thetis is not RAM hungry, and doesn't care about hard drive performance at all. It is also not very demanding of the graphics interface. You don't need super-gaming GPU. But screen real-estate is nice, particularly when you have other software like loggers running at the same time. Thetis runs very nicely on 4K displays.
Then there is the Andromeda. The Andromeda is, again, a 7000, but this time with a built in PC, a built in PC display, and a custom front panel with knobs and switches. It is designed to provide a more "traditional" radio ergonomic experience. I don't know anyone who doesn't immediately add a keyboard and mouse. And the screen is very small. Nevertheless, some people really like this form factor.Third, there is some discussion of a cooling "FAN" accessory but I cannot find that offered for sale. And is it "needed"? Is the fan auto sensing and variable speed?
Apache does not sell external fans. The external fan connector is merely a 12VDC convenience outlet. No current Apache products provide a fan controller, all fans run continuously. There are some older variants that had a fan controller, if you are buying a used ANAN you might run across one of those.
Some people need an external fan, some merely prefer one, most don't need one at all. If you are running AM and are long winded you might want an additional fanAnd lastly, what is the "wait time" in REAL terms by currently shipping models.... I see some are waiting upwards of 5 months after ordering so to set expectations what is real wait time for expectation setting?
I can't speak to that. I can only point you back to the relevant threads in this forum.
Finally, I'll add the following: you are buying hardware from Apache. This hardware is based on an open source hardware development project called "openHPSDR". The Apache hardware is a derivative work.
Apache does not create any of the firmware (that runs in the FPGA that is part of the hardware) or the software (nominally Thetis, but there are other client software app's). All of that is done by volunteer, open source developers.
Apache does not create any of the documentation (just the schematics). All of that is also done by open source volunteers.
Apache does do you the favor of loading the original, Protocol 1, firmware so that you can immediately use the hardware on delivery (although there is now at least one confirmed report of a unit showing up with Protocol 2 firmware).
Apache will support you if you have faulty hardware. However, other than hosting a lot of open source documentation and this forum, Apache doesn't really provide any functional support or direct support for firmware or software problems. That's what this forum is for.
It's not the easiest radio to learn or use. But it does things that absolutely no other radio can do. Learn to use it and your receiver will be second to none (at least in the real world, not on Rob Sherwood's test bench) and your transmit audio will be the best audio on the airwaves with the lowest IMD.
This is the BEST discription for the product line. this should be PINNED at the top as a MUST READ on this forum.
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
Scott,
Great explanation of the Apache Labs / Anan products.
I will also mention one of the reasons I ordered my 7000 MK II because Rob Sherwood has been very vocal how well Pure Signal works and has brought it up many times.
He made a chart in 2022 (NC0B / S53WW) ranking radios by transmit composite noise and the Anan 7000DLE was #1.
A Google search for "Rob Sherwood transmitter chart" should bring it up (I see it's on DJ0IP's web site for sure).
The transmit performance of the rigs that use Pure Signal is something everyone should aspire to.
That being said, I have my 7000 DLE MKII set up as radio 1 and my TS-890 as radio 2 with my SO2R setup. NR2, the new voice squelch, the customization of Thetis makes the 7000 a rig / system I enjoy operating and I can listen longer without ear fatigue.
I have a G2 100 watt with display on order, not sure if I will use it in my shack or as my portable rig... (probably both!).
73,
George / W7GES
Great explanation of the Apache Labs / Anan products.
I will also mention one of the reasons I ordered my 7000 MK II because Rob Sherwood has been very vocal how well Pure Signal works and has brought it up many times.
He made a chart in 2022 (NC0B / S53WW) ranking radios by transmit composite noise and the Anan 7000DLE was #1.
A Google search for "Rob Sherwood transmitter chart" should bring it up (I see it's on DJ0IP's web site for sure).
The transmit performance of the rigs that use Pure Signal is something everyone should aspire to.
That being said, I have my 7000 DLE MKII set up as radio 1 and my TS-890 as radio 2 with my SO2R setup. NR2, the new voice squelch, the customization of Thetis makes the 7000 a rig / system I enjoy operating and I can listen longer without ear fatigue.
I have a G2 100 watt with display on order, not sure if I will use it in my shack or as my portable rig... (probably both!).
73,
George / W7GES
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
The ANAN-7000DLE MKII HF & 6M 100W SDR Transceiver **i7 CPU** appears to be the same as the Andromeda but without the display. Curious as to why both are the same price. Also the radio without the display does not ask for a deposit but the full amount of $4495, I wonder if this means they are currently shipping? Thanks for all the good info on this forum.
Anyone one in the Houston Tx area using the Apache Labs radios, I would like to hear from them.
Calvin KR5E
Anyone one in the Houston Tx area using the Apache Labs radios, I would like to hear from them.
Calvin KR5E
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
What happened to the Anan 6000 series, the 30w rig?
It was on here late last year and I was considering getting it once I got moved in here. I don't see it anymore, so I am guessing there was a lack of interest, or they did a single run production and I missed it.
It was on here late last year and I was considering getting it once I got moved in here. I don't see it anymore, so I am guessing there was a lack of interest, or they did a single run production and I missed it.
Re: Pre-Sales Questions
None were produced. It's a good bet that none will be produced.