Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

w9mdb
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w9mdb » Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:48 pm

The TCP cat port is sending # Thetis TCP/IP CAT #" which is not TS-2000 nor PowerSDR compatible protocol.
There's no information sent on connecting. This should be removed as it can mess up the initial handshaking.
2022-02-17T12:45:17.276759-0600: verify_flexradio_id called
2022-02-17T12:45:17.277736-0600: 2:kenwood.c(1034):kenwood_get_id entered
2022-02-17T12:45:17.277736-0600: kenwood_transaction called
2022-02-17T12:45:17.277736-0600: kenwood_transaction: cmdstr = ID
2022-02-17T12:45:17.278713-0600: rig_flush: called for network device
2022-02-17T12:45:17.278713-0600: network_flush called
2022-02-17T12:45:17.278713-0600: network_flush: network data clear d: ret=0, len=23, ''
2022-02-17T12:45:17.280666-0600: network_flush: network data cleared: ret=0, len_read=23/0x17
2022-02-17T12:45:17.280666-0600: 0000 23 20 54 68 65 74 69 73 20 54 43 50 2f 49 50 20 # Thetis TCP/IP
2022-02-17T12:45:17.280666-0600: 0010 43 61 74 20 23 0d 0a Cat #..
2022-02-17T12:45:17.281642-0600: write_block(): TX 3 bytes, method=2
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby Dan » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:17 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:
Dan wrote:Scott, did you mean it safe to tie Ring and Shield together for audio negative and Tip is audio positive?

Thanks, Dan
Absolutely don't do this. You can damage the amplifier IC.

All: this topic is for bugs and issues. If you've got more questions about speaker outputs, take it to this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3149&p=8251

or start a new one in the Microphones & Speakers sub-forum.



Thank you Scott, I now understand, I never got that out of the manual, you are very clear.

Regards, Dan
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:28 pm

w9mdb wrote:The TCP cat port is sending # Thetis TCP/IP CAT #" which is not TS-2000 nor PowerSDR compatible protocol.
There's no information sent on connecting. This should be removed as it can mess up the initial handshaking.
2022-02-17T12:45:17.276759-0600: verify_flexradio_id called
2022-02-17T12:45:17.277736-0600: 2:kenwood.c(1034):kenwood_get_id entered
2022-02-17T12:45:17.277736-0600: kenwood_transaction called
2022-02-17T12:45:17.277736-0600: kenwood_transaction: cmdstr = ID
2022-02-17T12:45:17.278713-0600: rig_flush: called for network device
2022-02-17T12:45:17.278713-0600: network_flush called
2022-02-17T12:45:17.278713-0600: network_flush: network data clear d: ret=0, len=23, ''
2022-02-17T12:45:17.280666-0600: network_flush: network data cleared: ret=0, len_read=23/0x17
2022-02-17T12:45:17.280666-0600: 0000 23 20 54 68 65 74 69 73 20 54 43 50 2f 49 50 20 # Thetis TCP/IP
2022-02-17T12:45:17.280666-0600: 0010 43 61 74 20 23 0d 0a Cat #..
2022-02-17T12:45:17.281642-0600: write_block(): TX 3 bytes, method=2


I have placed a semi colon on the end, which if any client parses it, should return ?; to Thetis as a reply. Thetis' internal cat parser will as per the spec return ?; for an unknown message. So as a test I fired the string [#Thetis TCP/IP Cat#;] into it and as expected it returned ?;

There may be no info on connecting to a serial cat, but there is info on connecting to my implementation of TCPIPcat. Any client worth using will be able to handle a message that is not defined in the protocol.

Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w9mdb » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:01 pm

I have to disagree. The TS-2000 protocol has been in existence for decades.
PowerSDR protocol has been around since Flex invented it.
Having something claiming to be TS-2000 compatible or PowerSDR compatible and spitting out custom messages is not "backwards compatible".
I'm the maintainer of hamlib and I would have to add a delay after opening the serial port to see if the client (Thetis) is going to send some garbage that is not in the protocol. I don't find that a very acceptable thing.

Hamlib is capable of connecting to a serial port or a network port. Please reconsider removing this from the TCP connect.

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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:30 pm

Maybe it's time to get past "PowerSDR" and "TS-2000". The Thetis implementation of CAT has been radically extended beyond either of those two CAT implementations.

It's probably past time to consider this it's own, new, unique CAT implementation.

That said, it's very nice that it is built on a foundation of legacy Flex PowerSDR, and TS-2000. That provides some backward compatibility with older software that might not be maintained anymore. But with the vast number of new CAT commands that have been implemented over the last few years, and this past year in particular, serious consideration should be given to getting a full Thetis CAT implentation into HamLib, RigCat, DXLabs, etc., etc.

Mind you I'm NOT saying that is easy, not by a long chalk!

73,

Scott
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:35 pm

Well I will have to disagree with your disagreement ;)

The TS-2000 spec defines the following :

http://manual.kenwood.com/files/B62-1221-70.pdf
page 114

ts2000.png
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So it entirely feasible, by the spec to send the following :

ANYoldJUNK;

When 21k9 goes out that # enclosed, semi colon terminated string, will probably also include Thetis version number. I can include yet another option to turn it off in setup so that poorly coded parses that do not correctly handle 'command syntax errors' and return ?; carry on working. However, it is not being removed as I have need for it.

Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w9mdb » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:44 pm

If you need a version put in a command to ask for it.

There is no command being sent to get this -- it's asynchronous I/O which is only supposed to spit out when AI1; is set which Thetis doesn't do anyways.
So unsolicited async I/O is a complete violation of the TS-2000 spec.

Just add a ZZ command to get version if you need it. Like I said, I would have to put a a wait with a timeout on connect which is undesirable. Hamlib expects synchronous I/O.

Mike
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:54 pm

Are you telling me that you have problems if you have a 'syntax error' message arrive unexpectedly? Wow, blimey. Like I said, there will an option to turn it off and not send it.

Thetis does have kenwood AI 'support', although am not sure it is switchable via cat. There is a checkbox option for it already in the CAT tab to 'broadcast' frequency and vfo changes. I noticed the code not long ago.

ai_sorta.png
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w9mdb » Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:32 am

I expect a 20+-year old TS-2000 back end to be able to communicate with a TS-2000 emulator just like it communicates with a real TS-2000 like it's been doing for a couple of decades.
And to communicate over TCP/IP just like it communicates over the Thetis serial ports.
May be you can explain what app YOU have that doesn't work with a straight TS-2000 emulator.
The ID; command already returns 900 -- isn't that enough or do you need more than that?
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:18 am

w9mdb wrote:I expect a 20+-year old TS-2000 back end to be able to communicate with a TS-2000 emulator just like it communicates with a real TS-2000 like it's been doing for a couple of decades.
And to communicate over TCP/IP just like it communicates over the Thetis serial ports.
May be you can explain what app YOU have that doesn't work with a straight TS-2000 emulator.
The ID; command already returns 900 -- isn't that enough or do you need more than that?


Anything that is emulates the TS-2000 spec correctly will handle a badly formed message, and I am not about to to bother borrowing an actual TS-2000 just to send it #Hi There TS-2000#; and send you the ?; reply.

It outputs that string on client TCPIP connection so that without any other consideration, a client can easily determine if that is something it wants to continue with, without having to worry about what commands to send it, and like I said, there will be an option to turn it off.

There are reasons that it might not want to be done, if the port is exposed to the internet, for example, but the TS-2000 spec is not one of them. I think the discussion has run its course and sometime down the line you can have the source changed via Doug if you feel like it matters still, even though you can turn it off.

Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:33 am

Here is a vid covering the many issues related to RX2 vfoA/B. If you have 10 mins or so, it is probably worth watching and if possible discuss the idea of just considering everything as the TCI device 2 when RX2 is enabled in Thetis.

If this was decided as a good idea, then vfoA and vfoB would need to be swapped in TCI for RX2. This would make life somewhat easier, but technically not correct.

https://youtu.be/K4gjVvQImlg

Thanks, Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby NC3Z » Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:10 pm

Ritchie, I really appreciate all this work you are doing, you taking a superb radio and making it even better!

A few of us use VFO Sync and RX2 and we are probably in the minority. At least for a quick fix the RX1 VFO A/RX2 VFO B option you showed would get us by, even though as you said it is not "technically correct".
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby Yevgeni » Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:28 pm

Hi
Richie, thanks for the video.
Even the way it works now is already good.
I would like to try everything. More commands in the TCI zzsw0, zzsw1 to switch TX from the log. If possible.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby NJ2US » Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:36 pm

Richie, thanks for all the hard work, improvements and fixes to Thetis. Your video was spot on. I am also a consistent user of VFO Sync and RX2, listening to two antennas on the same frequency, which enhances my experience. The work around you have developed is welcomed, and I agree is a good solution to move forward, even though it is not “technically correct”.

Cheers.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby oe3ide » Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:41 pm

I suspect the problem can only be solved in the long term with major modifications.
Ie. for RX2 also a separate VFO-A and VFO-B, completely decoupled from RX1.

In TCI radio 1 would be RX1 and radio 2 would bei RX2. In OmniRig you could then configure 2 different rigs with different virtual cat ports.

In most log programs that use a direct CAT connection, you would also have to configure 2 separate radios for RX1 and RX2.

That means (for serial CAT-ports and TCPIP-CAT) we would need the ability assign RX2 to a specific Thetis COM-port or network port. Ie. a port which is only responsible for RX1 and a port which is responsible for RX2.

And then the part with rx/tx audio would come into the game....

Presumably this will start an avalanche of code changes....

But for now I think the workarounds (checkboxes) are perfect! Thanks Richie!

73 Ernst
Last edited by oe3ide on Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w2ner » Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:42 pm

Richie

Thank you for all your hard work, Thetis would not be at the point it's at today without you. I think its hard for some to see all the time and effort that goes into something like this and only see the outcome. I, for one, know what goes into something like this myself, being from the IT world. I also know how frustrating it can be when it comes to coding. Keep up the good work and again THANK YOU...

PS; If you're ever in my area, dinner on me...
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w9mdb » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:01 pm

Using 21k9(rc1)
I'm getting "TCI Audio could not be switched on."
I've got the TCI Server on 127.0.0.1:50001 and Server Running is checked.
Is there something else required?
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby RU6AI » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:16 pm

Hello ! Sorry, there was an extra tick due to inattention. There was no transmission with her when controlled via TCI. After removing the checkmark, everything started working normally. Once again, sorry for the inattention.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby NJ2US » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:23 pm

Postby w9mdb » Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:01 am

Using 21k9(rc1)
I'm getting "TCI Audio could not be switched on."
I've got the TCI Server on 127.0.0.1:50001 and Server Running is checked.
Is there something else required?
Post by W9mbd

As stated by Richie when he first introduced TCI to Thetis, he clearly states that audio is not supported.

73,
Jeff NJ2US



ramdor wrote:For those that haven't seen them, a couple of recent videos.

TCI initial basics working : https://youtu.be/AOTBsGdPQM0
Changes to filter dragging : https://youtu.be/AepFJnVLnNU

There should be an updated pre release (the last hopefully) over the next few days, which will include TCI in its basic form without audio/iq at this early stage.

73, Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:32 pm

Yes, the audio and iq stuff will require extensive effort from Warren and others. We have had initial discussions about it but nothing more at the moment.

Re the TCI stuff and RX2, the options do allow us to work around the annoying RX2 issue. However, before it goes out to rc2 I need to add some protection from the endless loop scenario. This will require some coding over the weekend. Hopefully I can get something out Sunday.

Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:37 pm

@RU6AI Ah great Eugene, thanks for that !

Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w9mdb » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:52 pm

Then I'm confused about what JTDX is hooking up to. If I select TCI RX#1 test cat works but then get the audio error.
Doesn't seem like we can just select CAT conitrol without audio in JTDX.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:00 pm

w9mdb wrote:Then I'm confused about what JTDX is hooking up to. If I select TCI RX#1 test cat works but then get the audio error.
Doesn't seem like we can just select CAT conitrol without audio in JTDX.


disable the 'use tci audio' in jtdx, refresh the devices, select your normal vac cables. If no audio like RU6AI make sure that bypass vac is turned off when mox is used in thetis (see above) . There is nothing stopping audio getting through to jtdx when tci audio is turned off, other than a config problem with the virtual cables/mute/low rx af etc etc.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3817&start=1230#p18102

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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby W1RHS » Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:21 pm

Hi Richie,

I am not sure how this is supposed to work, but if I un-check Alex in the Setup => General Tab, then re-checking it does not re-enable it. I have to close and re-open Thetis in order to turn it back on.

I am using a 7000, P2, and 21k9(rc1)

Thanks for all your amazing work! It is appreciated.

-Rick, W1RHS

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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w2ner » Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:33 pm

Richie

Not sure if this is valuable or if there is a fix or not for me. I use Maclogger and if I use TCI it will read the data and display the correct information. It will also change modes, but will not change frequency or bands. When I try and change freq, Maclogger will display the correct changed frequency in its display but within 10 sec it changes back to what Thetis was showing originally. Connecting via the RS232 port, it works great but not TCI. I have Thetis running on a Windows 10 machine and I run maclogger on my Imac M1. Connection is via a RS232 port on both machines and using a null modem cable.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:50 pm

w2ner wrote:Richie

Not sure if this is valuable or if there is a fix or not for me. I use Maclogger and if I use TCI it will read the data and display the correct information. It will also change modes, but will not change frequency or bands. When I try and change freq, Maclogger will display the correct changed frequency in its display but within 10 sec it changes back to what Thetis was showing originally. Connecting via the RS232 port, it works great but not TCI. I have Thetis running on a Windows 10 machine and I run maclogger on my Imac M1. Connection is via a RS232 port on both machines and using a null modem cable.


DDS and IF values into Thetis are not implemented as yet which can be suppled through TCI from external software. This is probably the issue. Essentially dds becomes the centre frequency, and the if is the shift from there.

I will get around to it shortly. TCI implemented the vfo message in the last couple of years or so, which I am using currently.

Richie.
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Feb 18, 2022 10:54 pm

Folks: let's stay on point, here. I just had to move three posts in a row. This topic is for discussing fixes/changes/adds that Richie is working on, not random problems with how to use Thetis.

Thanks,

Scott
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby K1LSB » Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:27 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Folks: let's stay on point, here. I just had to move three posts in a row. This topic is for discussing fixes/changes/adds that Richie is working on, not random problems with how to use Thetis.

Scott,

Then perhaps should the thread title be changed? The title says "...and current issues [i.e., "problems"]".

Not meaning to be argumentative, just sayin'...

Mark
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby Alexander UC » Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:02 am

ramdor wrote:
Alexander UC wrote:Adjusting the spectroscope bin width affects auto AGC.
The set gain RX of the VAC after rebooting the software is lost. After restarting the program, my -20dB settings sound as loud as 0dB. To return - 20dB the setting, it is enough to change 1 dB . Perhaps this is an old mistake.


Not possible for spectroscope to change augoAGC noise floor compensation. The process is only performed once per frame, either in panadapter code, or in waterfall code, no where else.

Perhaps you haven't saved your gain settings by saving the tx profile?

Richie.


Recorded a short video.
I change the window of the spectroscope, along with it the AGC of the receiver changes.
After starting the program, gain RX = 0 dB, and does not depend on your settings. The settings will only take effect after an adjustment of at least 1 dB. Pay attention to the power of the sound.
https://youtu.be/ny-plqeSH40
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Re: Thetis v2.8.11 - UPDATES and current issues

Postby ramdor » Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:15 pm

@Alexander, thanks for the video. I have not been able to replicate the issue with the vac gain, but I have fixed some code related to vac2 rx/tx sliders shown when in digi u/l. Please could you send me your database.xml from C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\OpenHPSDR\Thetis-x64

Regarding the auto noise compensation and the AGC shift when you change FFT width and/or sample rate I have made some changes which have improved things. Please see video : https://youtu.be/hFSReBhhbjA

Those changes will be in rc2, which wont be out tomorrow, but sometime later in the week/next weekend.

Cheers, Richie.

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