Thetis v2.9.0 - Updates and Issues

[w1tr]

I figured out what I was doing wrong...
Thetis 2.9.0 AUTO AGC GAIN DOES WORK...
However, to get the AGC gain to be at about the band noise level, you need to set the dB Offset to about +20.. (or so)
the 2.8.11 used 0 db offset to make the green line same as band noise so this was confusing.
Then it exactly lines up with the RED line that shows the measured band noise.
This is counter-intuitive, and IMHO a bug, but one that I can deal with now that I understand the behavior.
CUDOS on:
1) the Blobs and Peak now on the front panel !

[K9CDR]

I figured out what I was doing wrong...
Thetis 2.9.0 AUTO AGC GAIN DOES WORK...
However, to get the AGC gain to be at about the band noise level, you need to set the dB Offset to about +20.. (or so)
the 2.8.11 used 0 db offset to make the green line same as band noise so this was confusing.
Then it exactly lines up with the RED line that shows the measured band noise.
This is counter-intuitive, and IMHO a bug, but one that I can deal with now that I understand the behavior.
CUDOS on:
1) the Blobs and Peak now on the front panel !

No bug, if you read what Richie said about the changes made over time, bin width etc you'd understand its doing what it should and its just your intuition that is off in the matter

I think what you meant to say is:
Sorry Richie you guys were right the whole time but I never considered I might've been wrong--that never happens! And by "I figured out what i was doing wrong" I mean I know you guys did, several times over by many people at that!.....but I'm going to take the credit as if I beat you to it.
lol.

[w-u-2-o]

I agree with Terry, it isn't as intuitive as it could be. But it does work once you figure it out.

[ramdor]

I agree with Terry, it isn't as intuitive as it could be. But it does work once you figure it out.

- set your auto agc comp value to 0dB offset
- set your bin width to minimum

You will see that -Ga should now track the noise floor exactly

- change bin width and -Ga will move

Please watch : https://youtu.be/2QMXeGm1LEo

Hopefully this old chestnut will go to bed at some point. The 'confusion' is caused when people come from the 'broken' implementation from pre 21k9.

Richie.

[ramdor]

I will change 'dB Offset' to 'Shift' as the difference between NF and where -Ga sits is effected by other factors other than the dB Offset setting.

Richie.

[w-u-2-o]

Don't get me wrong, Richie. I 1000% (30dB% ) agree that it's extremely important for the auto-AGC algorithm to take into account resolution bandwidth. Indeed, as you know I have argued in the past that it should also take into account the attenuator setting in accordance with the AGC gain algorithm. But these very necessary complexities do make it a little harder for someone who just wants to eyeball it into place.

Changing the name of the setting is probably a good idea. Just throwing a few other possible names for the setting out there for consideration: perhaps "Factor" or "Coefficient" might also be considered. Not sure what's best.

Here's another idea: right now any manual change to AGC level causes auto AGC to be disabled. I remember this was a specific request by a number of people. What if there was an option such that manually adjusting the AGC level, either by slider or by dragging the G line, changed the auto agc shift (or whatever it will be named). This would bring allow adjustment in a more intuitive, visual manner.

Or, maybe even better, because I know you like modifier keys with the mouse: what if a shift drag of the AGC slider or G line changed the auto AGC shift without causing auto AGC to be disabled. Then no option would be required.

[DO2ZA Erwin]

[quote="w-u-2-o"] .............

Here's another idea: right now any manual change to AGC level causes auto AGC to be disabled. I remember this was a specific request by a number of people. What if there was an option such that manually adjusting the AGC level, either by slider or by dragging the G line, changed the auto agc shift (or whatever it will be named). This would bring allow adjustment in a more intuitive, visual manner.

Scott and Ritchie,

I think that is a very good Idea !

btw. 2.9.0.3 is running perfekt here, without any issues when I install, just reading the Pop-up Boxes and this very good Forum.

Thanks.

73 Erwin

[w8du]

I just installed 2.9.0.3 and it seemed to install without error. However, when I try to run it (W10_64bit). I get a popup window that says:
"Incorrect version of wdsp.dll installed". It then says it is importing the database, that popup closes and the program never opens.
Any ideas of how to fix this?
Tnx es 73 de Arnie W8DU
p.s. I notice that the wdsp.dll file in the Thetis directory is dated 10-8-2021, fwiw. Thetis 2.8.11 runs just fine with that.

[K9RX]

Regarding the auto AGC level - another suggestion. Keep functionality as is - if I move the AGC manually it turns it off - but allow me to right click over the "knob" on the slider to set it back to AUTO again and not have to go to SETUP etc. The "light" on the knob completely aids this ability - off vs. on.

Gary
K9RX

[ramdor]

Regarding the auto AGC level - another suggestion. Keep functionality as is - if I move the AGC manually it turns it off - but allow me to right click over the "knob" on the slider to set it back to AUTO again and not have to go to SETUP etc. The "light" on the knob completely aids this ability - off vs. on.

Gary
K9RX

did you try this? There is an graphics update issue regarding the green thumb grip that is on my list that I haven't looked at yet, but it changes state most of the time. Right click anywhere on the main UI agc slider should do it.

R.

[ramdor]

I just installed 2.9.0.3 and it seemed to install without error. However, when I try to run it (W10_64bit). I get a popup window that says:
"Incorrect version of wdsp.dll installed". It then says it is importing the database, that popup closes and the program never opens.
Any ideas of how to fix this?
Tnx es 73 de Arnie W8DU
p.s. I notice that the wdsp.dll file in the Thetis directory is dated 10-8-2021, fwiw. Thetis 2.8.11 runs just fine with that.

wdsp in 2.9.0+ is different to all other versions, and is required. If you uninstall any x64 versions you have, and check that the install folder is clear, I expect it will re-install a-ok. Doug built the releases over on TARP. I have no reason to think the incorrect version got packaged.

R.

[ramdor]

A quick vid of ongoing, work in progress updates to 2.9.0.

https://youtu.be/yVHmV8UDrn8

sliders2.png (5.32 KiB) Viewed 6344 times

Richie.

[K9RX]

Good day Richie, Yes - it seemed 'natural' to me that it would work that way - and I did try it but it didn't work at the time. I made a note of it and moved on... possibly I screwed up in the 'doing' ... I just tried it now and indeed - it works great! THANKS!

g.

[w-u-2-o]

A quick vid of ongoing, work in progress updates to 2.9.0.

So will ZZTOxxx now control the Tune Slider?

[w-u-2-o]

Regarding the auto AGC level - another suggestion. Keep functionality as is - if I move the AGC manually it turns it off - but allow me to right click over the "knob" on the slider to set it back to AUTO again and not have to go to SETUP etc. The "light" on the knob completely aids this ability - off vs. on.

Gary
K9RX

did you try this? There is an graphics update issue regarding the green thumb grip that is on my list that I haven't looked at yet, but it changes state most of the time. Right click anywhere on the main UI agc slider should do it.

R.

It works as you describe Richie. But, maybe, I think that Gary was on to something., I'm not sure this was his intent, but another method to get a more intuitive, visual approach to adjusting auto AGC settings might be to allow manual adjustment of the AGC slider or G line and then, if auto AGC is activated at that point, for the auto AGC differential/offset/shift to be set to maintain that relative level from there on.

In fact, this is probably the best way to do it. It avoids having another option, and it avoids requiring the knowledge of non-obvious modifier keys.

Then if people want to know what the actual differential/offset/shift (we need to pick a name ) is, they can just right click the AGC slider title to dump themselves into the AGC settings and look at the number in the box.

[ramdor]

A quick vid of ongoing, work in progress updates to 2.9.0.

So will ZZTOxxx now control the Tune Slider?

it will if tune is set to use that slider. I have not thought about it too much yet tbh. Also, the drive related cat commands will still obey limits that may be set.

I can add a tiny button to apply current thumb pos as limit set point, but it is very nice to be able to drag adjust that setting whilst tx'ing.

ref the agc stuff, yes I will look into it, but not for a while. Once this limit stuff is out of the way, I want to get back to displaying multi meters. It keeps getting delayed and it is getting to the point where I now want to see ALC, ref power etc, at the same time when I am txing.

R.

[w8du]

Thanks Richie. That worked. Runs like a top now!
Thank you for all your hard work and I like the pop-up message at startup.
73 de Arnie W8DU

[w-u-2-o]

A quick vid of ongoing, work in progress updates to 2.9.0.

So will ZZTOxxx now control the Tune Slider?

Some additional comments:

The power limit feature: brilliant! I wonder, though, is it possible to get optional tooltips on the main UI for "hidden" functions like this that require knowledge of right clicks or modifier keys?

The much more logical rearrangement of the CAT Control sub-tabs: also brilliant, and long overdue. In the spirit of making this even more logical, please consider:

- The main "CAT Control" tab to be renamed as "Serial/Net/MIDI" because it now comprises so many more interfaces than CAT or even CAT/TCI.

- The "ID as" selector for serial CAT be moved to the Serial CAT tab. The Test button should probably be there also.

- The Network CAT tab be renamed "Network", since it comprises CAT, TCI and N1MM, all completely different, not all CAT.

- The MIDI CAT tab to be renamed just "MIDI", as it is not CAT per se.

- User Interface be renamed "HTTP Server" and FocusMaster controls moved to the Network tab to be combined with the other N1MM settings. That's not strictly correct, but it seems more logical to have all N1MM controls in one place.

- Change "Emulate ExpertSDR3 Protocol" and "Emulator SunSDR2Pro device" to be an "ID as" selector just like for serial CAT. Because it is not selecting an entirely new protocol, just changing how the radio identifies itself, and this would be more consistent with how this is already done for serial CAT.

Cheers!

Scott

[w1tr]

I have a question about the GUI appearance of 2TON in Thetis 2.9.0.3 (also previous versions)

This is the appearance when Thetis Starts Up

2Tone-1.png (12.38 KiB) Viewed 6313 times

This is the appearance when 2TON is activated

2Tone-2.png (12.51 KiB) Viewed 6313 times

This is the appearance after 2TON is deactivated

2Tone-3.png (12.26 KiB) Viewed 6313 times

I do not seem to be able to clear the white background in the 2TON button.
IMHO it should look like it does when Thetis is first started up.

What am I missing?

[ramdor]

What am I missing?

updated skin packs that include graphics for the new buttons

additional ones for IK3VIG : https://bit.ly/3J2VCtx
W1AEX Rob Skins - http://www.w1aex.com/hpsdr/hpsdr.html
OE3IDE Ernst Skins - https://www.oe3ide.com/wp/thetis-skin/

I am not entirely sure which skins packs are included in the 2.9.0. I did notice the other day that it runs an exe to generate something or other, but skimmed over it so fast it didn't really register. Perhaps when we get 2.9.1 in a few months we should re-visit the included stuff(s)

Richie.

[w1tr]

Thank You...
I am using IK3VIG special...
I copied the buttons into the Console folder and that fixed the problem.

[w1tr]

A quick vid of ongoing, work in progress updates to 2.9.0.

https://youtu.be/yVHmV8UDrn8

sliders2.png

Richie.

Any chance of putting a MONITOR GAIN above the MASTER AF GAIN...
Make this independent of the MASTER AF GAIN.
Currently MASTER AF GAIN controls
1) The Master AF Gain on Receive when in RECEIVE MODE
2) The Monitor Gain when in TRANSMIT MODE
Dual function for one slider is not good.

[ramdor]

A quick vid of ongoing, work in progress updates to 2.9.0.

https://youtu.be/yVHmV8UDrn8

sliders2.png

Richie.

Any chance of putting a MONITOR GAIN above the MASTER AF GAIN...

I would rather not tbh. What I will do is probably change the text to say 'Monitor AF:' when in tx+mon. I think you can change mon af irrespective of mon state atm. Don't know really will need to look at it.

R.

[W4WMT]

Hi Richie,

In your video above, it appears the PureSignal indicators in the info-bar have reverted back to the old way of doing things?

73,
Bryan

[ramdor]

Hi Richie,

In your video above, it appears the PureSignal indicators in the info-bar have reverted back to the old way of doing things?

73,
Bryan

The colours? the Feedback? my dev environment database.xml gets changed hourly I didn't check whole vid, but PS-A is off, and they are greyed out. Oh, and you can expand/shrink by dragging that vertical white bar left-right, up to 30% of infobar width.

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expandedps.png (2.32 KiB) Viewed 6254 times

ibSettings.png (28.84 KiB) Viewed 6267 times

[W4WMT]

Oh, and you can expand/shrink by dragging that vertical white bar left-right, up to 30% of infobar width.

Ah ha! Nice

[ramdor]

Oh, and you can expand/shrink by dragging that vertical white bar left-right, up to 30% of infobar width.

Ah ha! Nice

yes it was a bit nasty when I had it on big screen, the display was very small, so added that in. It takes up less space than the old one when set to minimum size, around the same size if you include the two buttons on the left (which will eventually only be display related).

R.

[NC3Z]

Richie, love the drive level limiter. Would it be possible to be able to export the drive level settings for all the bands, much like how we can now export the Display Gradient?

[ramdor]

Richie, love the drive level limiter. Would it be possible to be able to export the drive level settings for all the bands, much like how we can now export the Display Gradient?

yes, can do

R.

[W9BHI]

Richie,
When in expanded mode and with band controls selected, if you select either SWL or VHF+, the band selection at the bottom of the screen disappears.
If you collapse the display and then expand it, the band selection comes back.
It works fine when you select WWV.
Not a big deal but I thought it as being strange and thought I would mention it.
Thanks, Don