CPU Usage

dieseldawg
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CPU Usage

Postby dieseldawg » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:36 pm

I am seeing CPU usage 20-30% while running Thetis on a 7000DLE Mark II, Protocol 2. Has happened since 2.8.11 in Windows 10. PC is an I7 with 32 G of memory. CPU usage is almost entirely from Thetis as shown in Task Manager. Only running one receiver, and Pure Signal in TX. I have an Nvidia 1030 video, and Thetis is using about 20% of GPU's. Any Ideas about why it's so high? What to do to lower it? Thanks.

Greg N8MW
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:37 pm

You need to be much more specific about what CPU reading you are talking about. Total CPU? Just Thetis? Measured how: Thetis, Task Manager, ResMon, or Process Explorer?

Every single one of those measurements will be different.

Also, although it won't make much difference, which i7? There are 12 generations comprised of dozens of different models

On an i7-7700k, with 32GB of RAM, with Win10Pro, under similar conditions, the Thetis process by itself is consuming approximately:

6 to 10% per ResMon
8 to 10% per Process Explorer
10 to 12% per Task Manager

If you sharpen your pencil a bit it'll be easier to compare measurements.
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oe3ide
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby oe3ide » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:01 pm

Using an i7-10700k
32gb ram
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050i
Win 10 pro


ResMon: 3-5%
ProcessExplorer: 4-5%
TaskManger: 3-4%

73 Ernst
dieseldawg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby dieseldawg » Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:34 pm

OK, thought I mentioned the CPU usage was for Thetis as per Task Manager. PC is I7 8700.
I thought 20-30% CPU usage by Thetis was high, for any i7.
The usage provided by OE3IDE of 3-4% seemed much more typical as reported to me by other Thetis users.
As I said, prior to 2.8.11 my Thetis usage was in the 3-4% range. I must have changed something, probably unknowingly. Can't seem to find anything obvious in Setup.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:28 pm

Yes, 20-30% for just the process is much too high in your system.

Thetis loves cores more than anything else. We are all running modern i7's. With my 4 core CPU I'm right around 10%. Ernst has an 8 core and he's right around 5%. So with your 6 core CPU you should be somewhere in between.

Anti-virus software, maybe?

Perhaps try reinstalling it?
dieseldawg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby dieseldawg » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:00 pm

Before installing Thetis 2.9.0.6 I uninstalled the existing version using Revo uninstaller. I had also done that for 2.9.0.3. Same CPU usage for both versions. Even with Thetis powered down, it uses 10% CPU and 10% GPU. No antivirus running. Don't know what else to check.
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FM5GB
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby FM5GB » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:09 am

Hi all !

Processor load is back on the scene again !
Greg you did'nt mention which version of Thetis you run. 32 or 64 bit ?
I have had several tries on my system (old i7 4770K @ 3.5 GHz 16 Gb RAM)
I run RX1 with 1536000 SR RX2 with 768000 SR. The radio is run thru a dedicated PCIe NIC with no major trouble

The 64 bit version loads TWICE as much the processor than the 32 bit version as seen on task manager, or ResMon.

I tried different computers : a rather modern i5 4570 @ 3.2 GHz with 16Gb Ram and a recent i5 1135G7 @2.4 Ghz laptop with 8Gb :
All 3 computers run win10 pro 64.
The 64 bit version loads twice as much the processor than the 32 bit version as seen on task manager, or ResMon on all THREE computers.
That makes me believe that the trouble is hardware related (specific to my Orion MK1 board taken from an ANAN 200D).

No one seems to have the same problem with his radio...

Any comment would be appreciated.

Phil FM5GB
dieseldawg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby dieseldawg » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:35 am

I am running the 64bit version of Thetis. The CPU usage reported by others I assume is for 64 bits as well. At least everyone I compared mine to runs 64 bits. I don't encounter any problems with Thetis functioning, it's just that the CPU usage seems abnormally high.

Greg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby K1LSB » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:09 am

My i7-6700k shows the following total CPU loads in Task Manager:

~0% at system idle, no apps running.
~1% after VM Potato is started.
jumps to 5% after Cantabile Lite VST host is started (a surprise to me since I always assumed Cantabile Lite was fairly low overhead).
Jumps to 20% when Thetis 2.9.0.6 is started with RX1 running on a 40 inch monitor in Panafall mode.
Jumps to 30% when RX2 is activated.
Drops to 26% when transmitting (possibly because the panafall workload is greatly reduced?).

It's possible that my very low VAC and VM buffer sizes are contributing to increased CPU overhead.

Mark
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:39 am

Low buffer sizes will not cause increased CPU usage.
K1LSB
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby K1LSB » Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:01 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Low buffer sizes will not cause increased CPU usage.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... e-CPU-load

"Reducing the CPU load....Increase the Buffer Size"

https://www.edmprod.com/daw-latency-and-cpu/

"A low buffer size will reduce latency, but increase the strain on your CPU. On the other hand, increasing the buffer size will lighten the load on your CPU, but introduce latency."

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203930

"Increasing the I/O buffer size reduces the load on the CPU of your Mac. However, larger I/O buffer sizes increase latency when recording."

https://support.uvi.net/hc/en-us/articl ... e-CPU-load

"How to Reduce the CPU Load....Increasing the audio buffer size"
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:24 am

Thetis is not the same as those other apps.

channel master.dll runs with an internal, non-adjustable buffer size of 64. It drives the train. Everything else is lost in the noise.
dieseldawg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby dieseldawg » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:55 pm

Scott, are you saying that there is no practical way to change the CPU usage by Thetis within a given PC, except maybe with an Nvidia card?

Greg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:54 pm

Even the most powerful Nvidia card won't help as there is no GPU processing involved in any of the DSP code. Even the cheapest DirectX capable GPU easily handles the display processing.
dieseldawg
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby dieseldawg » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:25 pm

Scott, what causes the difference in CPU usage by Thetis between systems with seemingly similar hardware?
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:53 pm

dieseldawg wrote:Scott, what causes the difference in CPU usage by Thetis between systems with seemingly similar hardware?
So far nobody has come up with any good ideas on why a small group of people observe higher CPU consumption.

My guesses are focused in on some sort of problem associated with CPU instruction sets, perhaps due to BIOS and/or OS configurations, including registry problems. But I have no proof of any of that.
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FM5GB
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby FM5GB » Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:55 pm

Hi Scott & Greg

I am still wondering why no one considers the CPU load behaviour being hardware related. Not so long ago it was commonly admitted that much
of the issues with various hardware (orion boards) was a 'timing problem". Have these issues been definitely solved ?
It's beyond logic that a 64 bit software version consumes twice as much processor load than a 32 bit version on a 64 bit system (verified on three different computers).
Greg dit you try the 32 bit Thetis version just for comparison ?

73s Phil FM5GB
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:26 pm

Phil,

Reliable timing closure in the firmware under all conditions remains a concern. The situation seems better overall with the newer hardware (Orion, Orion MKII), and seems to be worse the further one goes back in time, hardware-wise. Nevertheless, thanks to the fantastic effort by Rick, N1GP, the number of complaints is few and far between these days. Of course, that might also be because those who have tried to go to P2 and failed may have abandoned their efforts. It is impossible to know for sure.

More to your point, a timing issue in the firmware could not cause additional load on the client CPU. Client (e.g. Thetis) sample rates and buffer sizes, after initial operator selection where possible, are fixed and do not vary with the appearance of more, less, good or bad data on the P2 interface between the firmware and software. Therefore there can be no gross variation in CPU load due to malfunctioning firmware or hardware.

For most people there is a small reduction in CPU load with the 64 bit version, as expected. Where there is twice the CPU load with the 64 bit version vs. the 32 bit version on identical, or nearly so, hardware, common sense indicates a problem with the BIOS and/or operating system. It can't be something like a missing instruction set because the hardware is identical. But, for example, that instruction set might be disabled for some reason.

Of all the components involved in making our radios work, the operating system is by far the most complex. I have a similar problem like this right now with another piece of unrelated software. It works fine on one machine, but not another. It's definitely maddening!

73,

Scott
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FM5GB
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby FM5GB » Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:56 pm

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your answer. Having tested 3 different computers (different motherboards brands thus different bios software) I remain really confused with this issue. Nevertheless Thetis 32 works with no major trouble on my setup so I don't complain and am grateful for all the fine work done. The only drawback with my Orion mk1 & PA (from june 2014) boards is the transverter issue (eg the hardware related unability to shut down the tranverter TX output when not using the transverter) which I consider important. That's why I am more & more considering to buy another radio.

Best 73s from Martinique. Phil FM5GB
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby nostatic » Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:39 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Even the most powerful Nvidia card won't help as there is no GPU processing involved in any of the DSP code. Even the cheapest DirectX capable GPU easily handles the display processing.


So would a NUC with Iris Xe graphics be up to the task? I want to transition from a surface book 2 to a NUC (for the small form factor). Will go current i7 and at least 16gb of ram, but have been wondering if I need a discrete graphics card. The machine will only run Thetis - mono tasker and I run outboard audio gear so no vac/interface overhead.
w9mdb
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w9mdb » Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:49 am

In the Display tab for RX1 and RX2 the Fast Fourier Transform size makes a noticeable difference on CPU usage.
Mike W9MDB
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w-u-2-o
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Re: CPU Usage

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:21 am

nostatic wrote:So would a NUC with Iris Xe graphics be up to the task? I want to transition from a surface book 2 to a NUC (for the small form factor). Will go current i7 and at least 16gb of ram, but have been wondering if I need a discrete graphics card. The machine will only run Thetis - mono tasker and I run outboard audio gear so no vac/interface overhead.

That will work fine. No graphics card needed.

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