Thetis Remote Operation With 2.10.3.13 dev3c

[KD1GA]

With the new network setup options Richie added in the latest .13 dev3c release, I now have my G2 running as a server at my home QTH in Apex, NC, and I’m remoting into it from my work QTH in Asheville, NC. So far, it has been absolutely flawless.

Performance has been every bit as solid as my old 6400/Maestro setup. Both locations are on AT&T 1-Gig fiber, patched through a few unmanaged switches. I honestly can’t believe how well this is working. I haven’t experienced a single glitch or RX artifact, and the panadapter/waterfall is smooth as silk. On transmit, I’ve received excellent audio reports so far.

I’m not sure whether upgrading the G2’s Pi to a Pi 5 and running Trixie (thanks, Jerry!) has made a noticeable difference—I never tried this on a Pi 4—but the extra processing capability certainly isn’t hurting anything.

I’ve kept the audio chain simple: just a USB mic, no CMASIO, using the Windows WASAPI driver.

If you’re interested in trying remote operation with your ANAN and Thetis, Richie has provided a few files that outline the correct ports to forward on both ends. You’ll also need to join the Discord channel and access the development section to obtain the latest dev releases (participation and testing feedback are expected).

Based on how well this is working, I’m hopeful—and confident—that these new network options will make it into an official release before long.

[w-u-2-o]

While the additional UI features are undoubtedly useful, this has been possible since the original Hermes days. Even better, use a properly setup VPN (see below) and there are no ports to forward or any of that complexity, it will just work, and work from anywhere, not just where you have a router you control.

Maybe.

The "maybe" part for this type of setup, or a VPN-based solution, is that good performance depends entirely on the performance of the internet (WAN) link. If there isn't at least 300 Mbit/s, and latency is not low enough or stable enough, there will be significant quality issues in the connection. Some of these can be worked around by lowering bandwidth requirements, such as reducing sample rates, or only using RX1, or not using PureSignal, etc.

What sort of speeds and error rates are you getting between the Thetis PC and the G2? Obviously "enough", since it works But it would be really interesting if you were to install iPerf3 on both machines and ran tests for TCP and UDP performance.

As for what constitutes a "properly setup VPN" for remoting our radios, the VPN needs to be setup up to operate at "Layer 2", which is the network layer of packets and MAC addresses. This acts as a "bridge", essentially a virtual Ethernet cable. Most VPN setups work at Layer 3. Unfortunately a Layer 3 setup does not support radio discovery. More information on how to do this with the popular and speedy OpenVPN can be found at this link. You'll note they don't recommend VPN layer 2 bridging, but that's what it takes to handle the rather primitive radio discovery scheme used in the firmware.

[KD1GA]

Thanks, Scott, for the great information on VPNs. I’m going to install the app you suggested and will report back with my results. I knew this was always possible, but not being much of a network expert, it always felt a bit overwhelming to tackle.

That said, the new network options in this dev release made things simple enough that even I could get it running.

I’m sure having solid internet service on both ends certainly helps — both sites are on stable connections.

I will say that when I reverse things and use the 7000 as the remote station, performance is pretty rough — even on the same internet services. I experience noticeable lag and audio issues, including on the RX side. As we’ve discussed before, the unsupported Protocol 2 networking on the 7000 leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Thanks again,
Vin KD1GA

[ramdor]

If there isn't at least 300 Mbit/s

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Here are some actual bandwdith readings from within Thetis using protocol 2, description below each image.

protocol 2, single RX with 48k s/r in RX

1.png (11.08 KiB) Viewed 46 times

protocol 2, single RX with 48k s/r in TX no PS

2.png (10.17 KiB) Viewed 46 times

protocol 2, single RX with 48k s/r in TX with PS

3.png (10 KiB) Viewed 46 times

protocol 2, 2 x RX @ 1536k s/r, wideband, diversity

4.png (10.2 KiB) Viewed 46 times

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Also, related to all of this network stuff I built a small tool (ThetisTunnelC) in c++ that does the following. Still a WIP and is undergoing testing.

image.png (99.37 KiB) Viewed 46 times

[w-u-2-o]

Thanks, Scott, for the great information on VPNs. I’m going to install the app you suggested and will report back with my results. I knew this was always possible, but not being much of a network expert, it always felt a bit overwhelming to tackle.

Be careful, iPerf3 is addicting. Pretty soon you start measuring everything It will be very interesting to see what numbers you get for TCP and UDP performance across the internet.

I will say that when I reverse things and use the 7000 as the remote station, performance is pretty rough — even on the same internet services. I experience noticeable lag and audio issues, including on the RX side. As we’ve discussed before, the unsupported Protocol 2 networking on the 7000 leaves quite a bit to be desired.

By "reverse things" you mean swapping the G2 for the 7000? I wouldn't have thought the performance is that bad with the 7000, even with the vestigial protocol stack it uses.

[w-u-2-o]

Here are some actual bandwdith readings from within Thetis using protocol 2, description below each image.

If you are willing to go to 48KHz sample rate it sure does become a lot easier!

Also, related to all of this network stuff I built a small tool (ThetisTunnelC) in c++ that does the following. Still a WIP and is undergoing testing.

Very cool!