Apache Labs Community Forum

Walter,

While it is gratifying to see the behavior is as expected when forced to 1.0, using the signal generator built into Thetis may not be the best test, since this keeps all data and processing within the same clock domain. To truly test this one must inject the test signal into the ANAN hardware so that it may make the transition from the hardware clock domain into the PC clock domain, and vice versa in the transmit direction.

Nevertheless, I would expect to see similar behavior in such a case, although punctuated with the occasional under or over-run.

Also, do not forget that resampler behavior can be tuned over a wide range now with the advent of access to the advanced controls.

Finally, jitter of only a few PPM is going to be lost in the far greater distortions associated with atmospheric propagation for any real signal.

73,

Scott

I have a very quick question for anyone to help me please, I have another PC which has the regular version 2.8.11 of Thetis, to patch the current rc4b do I need to press CTRL at start up without having any prior patches before rc4b ?

DL2XY wrote: Forced to 1.0000000:
Indeed Spot on with only 1ppm offset (which may be rounding error of my PLL demodulator, its integer calculation too).
But we still have half ringbuffersize/samplerate latency, which will change over time to 0 or full ringbuffersize/samplerate until next overflow or underflow.

Hi Walter,

Even with the resamp forced to 1 (and therefore effectively disabled), we still need a small ringbuffer in that position to help synchronize the ChannelMaster thread with the PortAudio thread. This is actually what is done is PowerSDR/MRx/PS when the resamp is disabled, so Thetis is no different in that regard.

I like your test setup done here. Can you amplify a bit? What tool are you using to measure the deviation? Are you comparing the 1000 Hz output from VAC to an external frequency standard of some sort?

73,

Bryan W4WMT

Sorry for the thread-drift Scott

ULTIMAX wrote:I have a very quick question for anyone to help me please, I have another PC which has the regular version 2.8.11 of Thetis, to patch the current rc4b do I need to press CTRL at start up without having any prior patches before rc4b ?

yes, if you are coming from a modified version 21f or previous then yes. If you are coming from official tapr 2.8.11 then yes. If you are coming from anything older than 2.8.11 then no, as the database db version will be different and it will auto detect.

Richie.

Hi Richie,
I have a (may be stupid) question concerning the 0-Beat tune function.
Is it possible to realize the auto TUNE function as follows.
1) If RIT is OFF: Working as up to now (either with VFO-TUNE or automatic-RIT-ON-TUNE depending on existing checkbox value in SETUP)
2) If RIT is allready ON: 0-Beat will use RIT, in either case
Alternative for 2): A quick button in the main window to activate RIT-0-BEAT as in the existing setup. May be in your new pull down menues below the waterfall.

Another question:
Is it possible to automize the diversity procedure?
First step: Searching noise MAX and MIN values (with 10°steps for phase) i.e. for 5 gain values to detect the rough best gain
Second step: Searching the optimal phase for the rough gain value
Thrid step: Fine tuning the best gain?

73 de Josef

W4WMT wrote:

DL2XY wrote: Forced to 1.0000000:
Indeed Spot on with only 1ppm offset (which may be rounding error of my PLL demodulator, its integer calculation too).
But we still have half ringbuffersize/samplerate latency, which will change over time to 0 or full ringbuffersize/samplerate until next overflow or underflow.

Hello Bryan,

Hi Walter,

Even with the resamp forced to 1 (and therefore effectively disabled), we still need a small ringbuffer in that position to help synchronize the ChannelMaster thread with the PortAudio thread. This is actually what is done is PowerSDR/MRx/PS when the resamp is disabled, so Thetis is no different in that regard.

The main purpose of the ringbuffer is to estimate (measure) the samplerate of the incoming or outgoing data stream.
The underlying algorithm simply tries to keep this buffer exactly half filled by adjusting the conversion factor.

The Portaudio buffer is the one responsible for thread synchronization. It is at least 3 buffersizes long (input, buffering, output) even if Buffer Latency is manual set to zero. So minimum latency is 3*buffersize/samplerate.

I like your test setup done here. Can you amplify a bit? What tool are you using to measure the deviation? Are you comparing the 1000 Hz output from VAC to an external frequency standard of some sort?

I am using the Thetis RX test generator to put out a 1kHz tone via VAC1.
VAC1 is connected via muchenko virtual audio interface to the audio input of a self written tool.
This tool contains a software PLL with a center frequency of 1kHz. The control value of the NCO (Numeric Controlled Oscillator) minus 1000 is shown on a Y-t scope component to display the deviation over time.

I had tried the frequency measurement function of FL-Digi at first, but could not get happy with the results....

73 Walter (and sorry Scott)

DL2XY wrote: The main purpose of the ringbuffer is to estimate (measure) the samplerate of the incoming or outgoing data stream.
The underlying algorithm simply tries to keep this buffer exactly half filled by adjusting the conversion factor.

The Portaudio buffer is the one responsible for thread synchronization. It is at least 3 buffersizes long (input, buffering, output) even if Buffer Latency is manual set to zero. So minimum latency is 3*buffersize/samplerate.

Very well. I just didn't want to leave people with the impression that there is an unnecessary, latency causing, ringbuffer in line when Force is set to 1.000 in the resampler controls.

73!

ramdor wrote:

ULTIMAX wrote:I have a very quick question for anyone to help me please, I have another PC which has the regular version 2.8.11 of Thetis, to patch the current rc4b do I need to press CTRL at start up without having any prior patches before rc4b ?

yes, if you are coming from a modified version 21f or previous then yes. If you are coming from official tapr 2.8.11 then yes. If you are coming from anything older than 2.8.11 then no, as the database db version will be different and it will auto detect.

Richie.

Thank you Richie, I did what You told me to do , I got rc4b running but for some reason I'm not getting the new splash and the firewall option like in the main PC, everything works fine but that never change,,,any thoughts.

Al
73'

ULTIMAX wrote: Thank you Richie, I did what You told me to do , I got rc4b running but for some reason I'm not getting the new splash and the firewall option like in the main PC, everything works fine but that never change,,,any thoughts.

Al
73'

yep, rc5b had those changes not rc4b. If you are not seeing them, then you are not running the correct version.

Richie.

LATEST UPDATE 21k9 on 17/03/22

post 1 has been updated https://apache-labs.com/community/viewt ... 817#p14610

Thanks to all for the help testing. There will probably be a couple of updates to 21k9 over the coming days as small issues turn up.

73 Richie.

Find below a link to a gradient file that will give you the Ukrainian colours. Use the new Save/Load option on the gradient picker.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jyusckqks8ven ... .grad?dl=1
Cheers, Richie.

Thanks Richie, nice St Patrick's day gift.

Tony EI7BMB wrote:Thanks Richie, nice St Patrick's day gift.

Have a nice day Tony. Just for you : https://bit.ly/36lWn3k

Richie.

Very cool

K9CDR wrote:

W2QAQ wrote:

K9CDR wrote:


Well I think the most important information is missing from you yet. I think the actual error message would be quite relevant in the matter ! That would certainly point the group in the group in the right direction at least if not the specific cause.

I agree Cory, unfortunately the computer was under remote control at the time and my friend deleted it both times before I was able to screen cap it. I'll see what I can do to regenerate it and when I do I'll post it.

Thanks again,
Harry

I dont know if any kind of startup errors like you had would be logged or if that only happens when the program is actually running after successful startup, but you may check this folder for an errorlog.txt file, if one would exist yet in your case--C:\Users\--YOURUSERNAME---\AppData\Roaming\OpenHPSDR\Thetis-x64 assuming 64 bit machine

Was kind of hoping someone would've chimed in by now as to your original question RE:WIn7 if would even work or if this is a dead end...

Thanks again for the reply and the suggestion Cory. I have located the log and pasted the information below. Hopefully the key to my issue can be found here.

Thanks again to everyone in advance.

--Harry W2QAQ



Entry : 5:19:53 PM Saturday, March 12, 2022
Parameter is not valid.
---------stacktrace------------
at System.Drawing.Font.GetHeight(Graphics graphics)
at System.Drawing.Font.GetHeight()
at System.Drawing.Font.get_Height()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.get_FontHeight()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase.get_PreferredHeight()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase.get_DefaultSize()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control..ctor(Boolean autoInstallSyncContext)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown..ctor()
at Thetis.Setup.InitializeComponent()
at Thetis.Setup..ctor(Console c)
at Thetis.Console.get_SetupForm()
at Thetis.Console.ExitConsole()
at Thetis.Console.Dispose(Boolean disposing)
at System.ComponentModel.Component.Finalize()
-------------------------------

Entry : 5:20:45 PM Saturday, March 12, 2022
Parameter is not valid.
---------stacktrace------------
at System.Drawing.Font.GetHeight(Graphics graphics)
at System.Drawing.Font.GetHeight()
at System.Drawing.Font.get_Height()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.get_FontHeight()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase.get_PreferredHeight()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase.get_DefaultSize()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control..ctor(Boolean autoInstallSyncContext)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown..ctor()
at Thetis.Setup.InitializeComponent()
at Thetis.Setup..ctor(Console c)
at Thetis.Console.get_SetupForm()
at Thetis.Console.ExitConsole()
at Thetis.Console.Dispose(Boolean disposing)
at System.ComponentModel.Component.Finalize()
-------------------------------

Entry : 5:22:17 PM Saturday, March 12, 2022
Parameter is not valid.
---------stacktrace------------
at System.Drawing.Font.GetHeight(Graphics graphics)
at System.Drawing.Font.GetHeight()
at System.Drawing.Font.get_Height()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.get_FontHeight()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase.get_PreferredHeight()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase.get_DefaultSize()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control..ctor(Boolean autoInstallSyncContext)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.UpDownBase..ctor()
at System.Windows.Forms.NumericUpDown..ctor()
at Thetis.Setup.InitializeComponent()
at Thetis.Setup..ctor(Console c)
at Thetis.Console.get_SetupForm()
at Thetis.Console.ExitConsole()
at Thetis.Console.Dispose(Boolean disposing)
at System.ComponentModel.Component.Finalize()
-------------------------------

Entry : 5:23:29 PM Saturday, March 12, 2022
Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
---------stacktrace------------
at Thetis.Console.comboDisplayMode_SelectedIndexChanged(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at Thetis.Console.<picDisplay_Resize>d__4509.MoveNext()
--- End of stack trace from previous location where exception was thrown ---
at System.Runtime.ExceptionServices.ExceptionDispatchInfo.Throw()
-------------------------------

Entry : 5:32:12 PM Saturday, March 12, 2022
Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
---------stacktrace------------
at Thetis.Console.comboDisplayMode_SelectedIndexChanged(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at Thetis.Console.<picDisplay_Resize>d__4509.MoveNext()
--- End of stack trace from previous location where exception was thrown ---
at System.Runtime.ExceptionServices.ExceptionDispatchInfo.Throw()

DL2XY wrote:WIN7 SP1 64bit is fully supported.

Thank you sir

@Harry W2QAQ, does the machine have any form of GPU, embedded or otherwise? or is it a 'headless' machine? Does it have directX installed?, and have you made sure that the GPU drivers up up to date?

Also, as an aside, have you installed the official 2020 TAPR release and made sure that works? After which you would just replace the files from the zip in post 1 (making sure to match x64/x86 version), and hold CTRL as you start up for the first time.

Richie.

Thank you Richie for your priceless work.
My question is where I can get a complete version with the latest IK3VIG skin.


I miss cw tone in VAC but I love thethis )


73, Jesus

Oh no..... sorry, I read just now the first post

ramdor wrote:

ULTIMAX wrote: Thank you Richie, I did what You told me to do , I got rc4b running but for some reason I'm not getting the new splash and the firewall option like in the main PC, everything works fine but that never change,,,any thoughts.

Al
73'

yep, rc5b had those changes not rc4b. If you are not seeing them, then you are not running the correct version.

Richie.

Richie, Thank you again

I update to your latest21K9 this morning , everything is working , but the only thing is that I keep getting this error messages in RED letters in the display almost every 30 seconds alternating , this is what I'm getting, how can I turn off that or fix whatever is the issue:

SEQUENCE ERROR: 8 (DDC2)
SEQUENCE ERROR: 256 (MIC)

Please help me here, I don't like to bother

Thank you very much Rich

Al
73'

Rename your dababase.xml file, and restart and reconfigure thetis, just to make sure there is not something odd going on. If it is still happening, include your seq log records, together with a screenshot of the H/W select page showing ips/ firmware, and the model of your radio. Also try running ping to your radio, with and without Thetis running and check for packet loss.

Also, try reducing F/W Set sample rate, close rx2, make sure diversity is off, and close WB. Also, enable network tweak...
Those are about all the things you can do, without trying different network cards, different firmware on the radio, hub/switches, etc etc. Also make sure the PC is not bogged down doing something.

Richie.

ramdor wrote:Rename your dababase.xml file, and restart and reconfigure thetis, just to make sure there is not something odd going on. If it is still happening, include your seq log records, together with a screenshot of the H/W select page showing ips/ firmware, and the model of your radio. Also try running ping to your radio, with and without Thetis running and check for packet loss.

Also, try reducing F/W Set sample rate, close rx2, make sure diversity is off, and close WB. Also, enable network tweak...

tw1.png

Those are about all the things you can do, without trying different network cards, different firmware on the radio, hub/switches, etc etc. Also make sure the PC is not bogged down doing something.

Richie.

WOW Richie, just checking that Network Throttle Index Tweak box and allowing Thetis to run as administrator and rebooting like it said to do,
it stop showing me those error messages, and I close Thetis many times and restarted and no messages so far, hopefully stays that way.

Thank you Richie

Al
73

Hi Rich,

Sorry Mate to ask this here but I have been looking all over the place for the right info. I want to up grade my firmware to V2.1.18... because I'm getting loads of SEQ errors since the new Thetis update. I think this could be down to my firmware being out of date

I have found the download that I need but, I don't seem to be able to find the upload software that I need to install it with I'm running V2 on my 8000dle. Could you help me out

It seems unlikely that you could have missed the rather large firmware section of the forum:

https://apache-labs.com/community/viewforum.php?f=23

Start with reading the tacked threads in the various sub forums there.

Further firmware posts here will be deleted.

And this thread is also coming to a close. After eight full months of effort resulting in a truly incredible list of improvements, Richie has asked me to close this topic to further posts. Fear not, however, for this is not the first time this has happened, it merely punctuates the process. Doug is working to create a formal release to Github, with an installer. I'm not sure what the new release version will be, but I'm guessing 2.9, although with the herculean effort put in by Richie, it might be 3.0

Many thanks to all of you for your dedication to beta testing. And there really aren't sufficient words to thank you, Richie, for all that you have done for the community. From a personal perspective you have definitely motivated me to up my game. I have made many changes in response to your efforts and my station has never operated this smooth and reliably, thank you!

73!

Scott

Hey all,

Scott has re-opened the thread perhaps until the TAPR git hub release is available. There has been a small update and 21k9b is now in post1. It fixes a rare issue at start-up that has been lurking in there since Sept'21. If all is working ok with 21k9 then you can ignore it.

Cheers, Richie.

Hello Richie,

Richie I have a simple question, after installing the K9 version, lots of operators of our group are getting so many SEQ errors messages on the display which Scott mention that unless you're getting Audio or VAC issues not to worry about it, which we understand, but is like driving in your car and you see the check engine light come on and you go to the mechanic tell you not to worry, Anyway is that's the case can you ad a control or a fix or something where the operator gets to choose not to see those alerts at all ?

Just a simple question

Al
73's

seq error messages should be rare. If they are frequent, then you need to find out why. One thing to check is to make sure that 'Network Throttle Index Tweak' is ticked on as this has been known to help.
However, at some point I could add an option to 'ignore SEQ msgs unless more than X per time interval Y'

Richie.

Richie--probably too late for the impending release, but a simple option to simply turn off SEQ error reporting might be worth it. If someone was having audible artifacts they could turn it on to see how bad bad is.

Hi Richie,

Yes I did everything as you said and it help me and some fellows , but sometimes depending on the band they come back
none of us see a difference in performance of any kind, just the constant messaging which is annoying
that would be great to have that option to totally turn that off for good, because is hard to ignore even if it means no harm.

Al
73'