Apache Labs Community Forum

I have recently acquired a 100B to use on my bench. I am running the current version of Thetis. When listening to other stations on this rig compared to my ic-7300 the stations signals seem to be weak, like slightly above the noise floor and hard to make out. Adjusting the AGC gain on the main screen is not the issue. I can easily switch between the Anan and 7300 and the difference is very noticeable. I seem to remember having this issue with my Anan 10-e and an adjustment in the settings fixed it. Thanks for any help.

I looked through some notes and realized that on my Anan 10-E the S-ATT was the culprit of the issue with that rig. Not sure if it matters but on the 100B it is using firmware version 1.5. My 10-E is using version 1.3.

So did adjusting S-ATT fix your issue?

1.5 is the latest firmware for the Hermes 14 bit card used in both the 100B and 10E.

On the newer version of Thetis on 100b I don’t see a S-ATT only an ATT which is set at zero and signals are noticeably weaker on the 100b using the same antenna.

There have been no changes to how S-ATT/ATT works in Thetis (or PowerSDR) since Thetis was first released.

Double click the ATT or S-ATT label above the numeric control to switch between ATT and S-ATT control modes.

Or turn it on or off in Settings > Options > Options-1

I tried using my HP sig generator to calibrate the receive level, I tried using the WWV and still have the same issue. I did notice when using the Freq Cal in the calibration tab that when I clicked start the WWV signal was noticeably stronger and almost quieted the static. I attempted to download and install the latest version of OpenHPSDR-PowerSDR mRX PS v3.4.9 to see if it were an issue due the older SDR. I tried 2 installs and uninstalls and kept getting this

What are the chances that this is a hardware issue?

Level calibration will only adjust where the panadapter scale or S-meter is reading. It can only be performed with a calibrated signal generator. You cannot use an off the air signal like WWV for Level Cal. If you have used an off the air signal for Level Cal in Thetis, then you definitely want to go back into setup and press the Level Cal Reset button to get the calibration back to factory original.

It is well known that the S-meters on all Kenwood, Yaesu and Icom rigs are either poorly engineered, or intentionally engineered to lie. You can judge the reason for yourself. That is to say, you might get an accurate reading of S9 if you put in a -73dBm signal, but when, for instance, an Icom S-meter is reading S2 the real signal level is probably more like S5. This has the effect of making it seem like the receiver is "quieter" than it really is. Thetis/Apache, Flex and Elecraft S-meters don't do this. Could this be the source of your concern?

The only way to know for certain is to use a stable external signal generator. If you have a signal generator that you know is well calibrated then you can use it to calibrate the Thetis/Apache radio. Calibrated or not, then you can use the signal generator to look at the linearity of both the Thetis/Apache S-meter and the 7300 S-meter. Set the signal generator output so you get S9 exactly in Thetis, then lower it in 6dB steps and see if it steps down an S-unit each time. Then do the same thing on the 7300. Make a table and compare results.

Did you sort out the S-ATT problem and ensure it is set to 0dB attenuation?

You image did not post properly. See this topic to learn how: https://apache-labs.com/community/viewt ... =39&t=2529

I have an accurate HP signal generator. The first time I fired the radio software up the signals were weak when compared to using thetis on another laptop and my 10-E. Same antenna and coax. I tried calibrating using my signal generator which only slightly changed the S meter and panadapter. The signal levels I am referring are not an s meter issue but a higher noise floor as opposed to signal levels, people are very hard to hear when compared to my 10-E and a little older version of Thetis. Here is the pic I tried to upload showing the issue with trying to downgrade to PowerSDR to see if I had the same issues using it.

cleanrf wrote:I have an accurate HP signal generator. The first time I fired the radio software up the signals were weak when compared to using thetis on another laptop and my 10-E. Same antenna and coax. I tried calibrating using my signal generator which only slightly changed the S meter and panadapter. The signal levels I am referring are not an s meter issue but a higher noise floor as opposed to signal levels, people are very hard to hear when compared to my 10-E and a little older version of Thetis.

Words are important: I'm assuming what you are saying here is that the signal levels are correct but the noise floor is high. Is that right? Because a high noise floor is a very different problem than "weak signals". A high noise floor is often indicative of something wrong with the firmware.

Please post a screen shot of the Thetis Setup > General > H/W Select screen so we can be absolutely sure of what firmware is being detected by Thetis.

Here is the pic I tried to upload showing the issue with trying to downgrade to PowerSDR to see if I had the same issues using it.

That implies that something is wrong with the firmware as well.

It may be that you need to reload the firmware in this particular 100B.

I did not check to see if signal strengths were similar when compared to my 10E but I did notice they were noticeably weaker compared to the noise floor on 100B.

You need to upgrade to Thetis 2.9.0.6 as your next step.

Get it here:

https://github.com/ramdor/Thetis-2.9.0/ ... g/v2.9.0.6

Then repost that screen shot, please.

Here ya go.

Thanks. Results confirm expectations, i.e. Protocol 1, version 1.5 firmware.

Any improvement or changes with 2.9.0.6?

Any actual measurements done with your signal generators? It is important to know if the signal levels are accurate and that this is a noise floor problem. If the signal levels are accurate then they are not "weaker".

In the pictures below the 10e on a laptop and the 100b on a desktop are next to each other to perform the test. Signal from the sig gen is set at -73 dBm at 9.000 mHz and connects to each radio and the calibration was run. Below I’d the difference. The 10e shows -73 dBm with the noise floor around -145 dBm, the 100b shows -63 dBm with a noise floor at 102 dBm.

That doesn't make sense. If you calibrated both rigs from that signal generator, they should both read the same signal strength. Your signal generator is set to -77dbm, but if you ran the calibration in Thetis at -73 that's what the signal meter in Thetis should read.

I'd still try different firmware. If that solves anything you can go back to the latest and greatest to see if the issue comes back. Try the other antenna ports if you haven't already. Also make sure diversity is disabled on both rigs. The gain settings there can skew what you're seeing,

Your photos show a signal level of -73dBm on the panadapter in both cases. The S-meter on the affected system is showing -63dBm because -100dBm of noise at the panadapter resolution bandwidth integrated over the 8KHz passband the S-meter is looking at is approx. -63dBm. So it's not a "weak signal" problem, it's a high noise floor problem.

Try reloading the firmware on the affected system. Try also down rev'ing it to 1.3.

Scott, can you point me to a thread that explains how to do this? I tried following the instructions in this thread https://apache-labs.com/community/viewt ... =18&t=2333 and it when I attempt to start HPSDR Bootloader I get this error. Thanks

You have to install WinPcap or Npcap to solve the missing DLL problem:

https://apache-labs.com/community/viewt ... =18&t=2333

WinPcap: https://www.winpcap.org/
Npcap: https://npcap.com/

ea3aqr wrote:You have to install WinPcap or Npcap to solve the missing DLL problem:

https://apache-labs.com/community/viewt ... =18&t=2333

WinPcap: https://www.winpcap.org/
Npcap: https://npcap.com/

I believe I installed NpCap then rebooted. I will double check when I get that computer later.

Thanks

You might also try resetting the database. A corrupted database can do some strange things.
W2FMU

@cleanrf -- yep, you missed the clearly delineated step in the instructions where it said to install Winpcap or Npcap

@Ernie -- good point! That's an easy test before going through a firmware reload process.

w-u-2-o wrote:@cleanrf -- yep, you missed the clearly delineated step in the instructions where it said to install Winpcap or Npcap

@Ernie -- good point! That's an easy test before going through a firmware reload process.

No, I installed Npcap but it did not work, maybe something I did wrong. It worked after installing Wincap. I have downgraded to 1.3 and running the current version of Thetis I am still having the same issue.

cleanrf wrote:I have downgraded to 1.3 and running the current version of Thetis I am still having the same issue.

Damn.

Now starting to grasp at straws.

I noticed in your photos above that each radio was using different client software. What happens if you swap that situation around? Put the 10E on the 100B client PC, and vice versa?

If the problem moves from one ANAN to the other then we can blame the client software configuration. Either a setting, a database, or both.

Failing that then maybe it really is a hardware problem.

Have you looked for any loose connectors, RF and digital, inside the 100B?

w-u-2-o wrote:

cleanrf wrote:I have downgraded to 1.3 and running the current version of Thetis I am still having the same issue.

Damn.

Now starting to grasp at straws.

I noticed in your photos above that each radio was using different client software. What happens if you swap that situation around? Put the 10E on the 100B client PC, and vice versa?

If the problem moves from one ANAN to the other then we can blame the client software configuration. Either a setting, a database, or both.

Failing that then maybe it really is a hardware problem.

Have you looked for any loose connectors, RF and digital, inside the 100B?

I will try this this evening. I have not looked for any loose connections but will check. Thanks

Swapping different computers from the 100B, 10E etc the 100B and the issue is still happening. Via the suggestion of a friend to try all antenna ports and then the bypass. I get normal receive when antenna is connected to bypass. It was suggested that there is an IC that will cause this if it is bad. I think I am going to send it Doug for repair.

Any resolution on this problem, I have something similar

WM4CH wrote:Any resolution on this problem, I have something similar

Glenn: so you are saying your Bypass port works, but not any of the ANT ports?

WM4CH wrote:Any resolution on this problem, I have something similar

I don't know if cleanrf reads the forum often, but it was a hardware issue. Doug was able to fix it and the rig has been working fine ever since.

w-u-2-o wrote:

WM4CH wrote:Any resolution on this problem, I have something similar

Glenn: so you are saying your Bypass port works, but not any of the ANT ports?

Yes it appears to be the same thing.