Apache Labs Community Forum

I am on the list for a new G1 with optional BPF and other enhsncements.
I have a question about the 3rd Order IMD spec fir the transmitter.
The specs that ANAN has published show the 3rd order IMD at -53dB on 20m at 10 watts output.
This is weird for a 100 watt rig. The G2 and other 100 watt rigs give 3rd Order IMD at 100 watts.
I have written asking about this, but no response.
No doubt, their published IMD numbers are given using Pure Signal Predistortion, but it makes no sense to publish numbers for a 100mwatt rig at inly 10 watts.
Anybody have any insight into this?
Thank you.
73, Mike K9MB

That was mis-copied from the 10E description. Scroll on down to the transmitter specs it is listed there correctly.

Where did you hear it was going to be released in January? Looks like first batch hasn't even sold out yet. I think some people are being cautious with their money.

Is there a list of the differences between the G1 & G2 and what make them different from each other.
Just trying to figure out what the advantage & disadvantages between the two radios.

The G1 only has a single ADC receiver, so it can't do Diversity Receive.

I live in a noisy metroplex so I really need Diversity Receive, in fact on many days I couldn't operate without it.

Mark

K4IBC wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 8:35 am That was mis-copied from the 10E description. Scroll on down to the transmitter specs it is listed there correctly.

Where did you hear it was going to be released in January? Looks like first batch hasn't even sold out yet. I think some people are being cautious with their money.

Thanks for the info on the IMD at 100 watts.
I am almost certain that they just updated that spec at the bottom. I just looked at it two days ago and the spec was for 10 watts both places.
Seems like somebody put it up to respond to the question which I had emailed about.
You may note, however, that it just says “IMD typically -50dB, but the protocol is not standard where they specify 3rd Order IMD and a range of suppression. They do not give 5th order IMD, but specifying the close in products (3rd order) is the most important spec I think.
Really, I cannot see why they do not use the same basic amplifier as in tje G2, but the G2 has a lot more enhancements, so the IMD be better. No doubt, these are Pure Signal pecs, but it would be nice if they gave the specs without predistortion, which are likely closer to -30dB 3rd Order IMD.
Maybe they will clean this up soon.
I am in the first shipment batch and had upgraded from a 10E order and added the Bandpass filter and low noise 6 meter LNA option, so it is getting pricey at about $2k.
That is why I am asking more questions myself
The bandwidth limit of 192KHz vs 384khz is a little disappointing, but not a deal killer.

To amswer yiur question, I got a letter Thursday saying that the first batch would ship in January (yeah-right!!) so it will not be long until they begin shipping.
But the letter mostly was about the added BPF in receive plus more port options and a LNA for 6 meters as a $200 add-on and they wanted to know if I was opting in or out of the upgrade.
This tells me that they are fabricating and writing firmware, so it is happening. They also said that there would be a free two year warranty for pre-orders.
That can be satisfying or alarming, depending on exoectations firmthe first batch…

KC2QMA wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 11:14 am Is there a list of the differences between the G1 & G2 and what make them different from each other.
Just trying to figure out what the advantage & disadvantages between the two radios.

The G2 has better 3rd order IMD on transmit and the bsndwidth displayed goes up to 384khz vs 192khz
It also gives full diversity as well I think with two processors.
It is 2x as expensive for a reason, but I do not want to spend $4k+ for a radio and can live without diversity phase cancellation capability.

K1LSB wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 3:28 pm The G1 only has a single ADC receiver, so it can't do Diversity Receive.

That's really the only significant difference. If PureSignal is being used then the transmitter IMD performance differences between models starting with the old ANAN-200D and newer are pretty much insignificant in practice. Which one is the "best" is only going to be noticed on the lab bench, not in any real-world scenario.

It would appear that, recently, G1 position holders received an email that said the G1 would ship in two different configurations. These are with and without the BPF (preselector) and 6M LNA. Other than the LNA, IMHO that's also not a significant difference as the 3rd order BPF designs used in all prior models don't amount to very much preselection. Indeed, I always use bypass on both my 100D and 8000DLE.

K9MB wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 3:51 pm The G2 has better 3rd order IMD on transmit and the bsndwidth displayed goes up to 384khz vs 192khz

The maximum bandwidth available will depend on which firmware you install (or that comes installed). I'm very confident that BOTH P1 and P2 will be supported on the G1. The current version of Thetis supports P1 and P2 on ALL models all the way back to the original ANAN-10 as follows:

- With P1 firmware, ONLY 192 KHz is supported.
- With P2 firmware up to 1536 KHz is supported.

w-u-2-o wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 4:57 pm

K1LSB wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 3:28 pm The G1 only has a single ADC receiver, so it can't do Diversity Receive.

That's really the only significant difference. If PureSignal is being used then the transmitter IMD performance differences between models starting with the old ANAN-200D and newer are pretty much insignificant in practice. Which one is the "best" is only going to be noticed on the lab bench, not in any real-world scenario.

It would appear that, recently, G1 position holders received an email that said the G1 would ship in two different configurations. These are with and without the BPF (preselector) and 6M LNA. Other than the LNA, IMHO that's also not a significant difference as the 3rd order BPF designs used in all prior models don't amount to very much preselection. Indeed, I always use bypass on both my 100D and 8000DLE.

K9MB wrote: Sat Dec 13, 2025 3:51 pm The G2 has better 3rd order IMD on transmit and the bsndwidth displayed goes up to 384khz vs 192khz

The maximum bandwidth available will depend on which firmware you install (or that comes installed). I'm very confident that BOTH P1 and P2 will be supported on the G1. The current version of Thetis supports P1 and P2 on ALL models all the way back to the original ANAN-10 as follows:

- With P1 firmware, ONLY 192 KHz is supported.
- With P2 firmware up to 1536 KHz is supported.

Thank you, Scott for the information.
I wonder if you can explain why you turn iff the 3rd order BPFs in your other equipment?
3rd order filters are certainly not sharp, but I had guessed that they may help in out of band local signal increased intermod from overload and saturation that reduces dynamic range, say- an AM station a few miles away affecting 160 or 80 meter weak signal performance. 160 is a bad example, however, I understand…
You must think that they actually cause some degradation rather than enhancement of the overall performance in a dense electromagnetic environment?
This is a real question- not questioning your choice, but trying to understand it better.
I told them I wanted the BPF and LNA, but if it is useless, why pay $200 extra?
By the way- what is the noise figure of the 6 meter front ends without LNA added?
At 6 meters, the noise figure needs to be higher than about 4dB to benefit from a low noise amp, plus- any preamp will degrade the high signal level IMD of the receiver in a signal dense environme t like channel 2-6 tv or FM cose by, plus an LNA must have a gain of at least 10dB higher than the native front end noise figure or it will do little good. If the frint end is 7dB like ring mixers,mthe you really want an LNA witj 17-20dB gain to take advantage of the low noise figure if the LNA, plus a high dynamic range LNA is only part of a solution, because the first stage after it (mixer must be wven higher dynamic range or it will make thi gs worse in high signal density environment.
Let me jnow why the 3rd order BPF are a negative though, so I can decide for sure if I want them or not. Thank you. 73, MB