Olliter software looks a LOT like Thetis

[w-u-2-o]

Olliter software looks a LOT like Thetis

I called them out on this almost a year ago: https://community.apache-labs.com/viewtopic. ... ter#p28978

Richie just put out a video on this same subject.

What do all of you think?

[NC3Z]

How many of these rigs are out there?

[OE3JRC]

Hello!

Last year during the Ham Radio in Friedrichshafen I met the guys from Olliter and was able to get aquiuanted to their software

Yes, it looks a lot like Thetis, but there are differences too. I was very excited about their hardware and software and their future plans and developments. However the price let me down to order it last year. It is expensive. This needs a lot of sleepless nights to decide.

For what I know is Thetis "kind of" open source, in case you don't use/sell it commercially. But I am not an expert on this. I think Richie can judge this much better than I can.

Last year I noticed a lot of differences and add-ons, like features for SWL. But a lot of simmularities too, like the setup.

This is what I can tell you about it, what I noticed last year during a demo of an hour or so. I spoke with the software engineer.

73, Hans PA0Q/OE3JRC.

[PH7R]

I think Ritchie is right. They took Thetis and re-designed it for their own SDR brand. Too many similarities and it is not that you write something like Thetis overnight. And if you would design something new from the ground I would expect a complete more modern look and feel.
I have not seen any Olliter SDR's outside with external ham's.

[w-u-2-o]

AFAIK, all the openHPSDR software, firmware and middleware is released under the GNU General Public License v2 (GPLv2)

For instance: [url]https://github.com/ramdor/Thetis/blob/master/LICENSE[/url]

I am by no means a copyright or intellectual property rights lawyer. However, this link provides a good explanation of how GPLv2 works: [url]https://fossa.com/blog/open-source-software-licenses-101-gpl-v2/[/url]

The short answer is, if they used all or part of WDSP, ChannelMaster, or the rest of the Thetis code, then they need to provide public access to 100% of their source code for the entire project, as it is a derivative work as defined in GPLv2. Just like Thetis was based on PowerSDR mRX, and piHPSDR uses WDSP, etc.

It would very, very interesting to inspect a copy of their software distribution to see if it includes any DLLs that, upon internal inspection, contain code that is identical to that found in wdsp.dll or channelmaster.dll, or perhaps even those files wholesale.

And what about their firmware? Where did it come from?

[ramdor]

As I understand GNU GPL v2 licensing, you can modify and change open-source software in any way. However, you are only required to provide the source code to those who have received the corresponding binary based on that changed source. In this case, access to the binary is granted after a $5,000 purchase, and they use it as a 'key' to obtain the modified source code.

I have no issue with them placing the source behind a paywall. My concern, however, is their claim—via email—that Thetis code was not used. I believe that statement to be incorrect.

One aspect I am uncertain about, due to the timeline, is the resampling code by Bryan W4WMT. As far as I can tell, it is not present in PowerSDR mRX, since features like VarRatio do not appear in the VAC setup (though I have not reviewed the source code). However, its inclusion in their documentation and videos suggests that if it later appeared in Thetis, along with all the associated buffer settings, then in my opinion, they must have used Thetis source code.

Time will tell if someone sends me the source

[WA4SIX]

It seems that they are using Pure signal, too. I thought that was copywrite protected, too, as Simon (SDR-Console) will not even breach that.

Ed

[w-u-2-o]

PureSignal is part of WDSP. Simon wants his code to be 100% proprietary and he has always, and continues to, do the right thing in that regard.

[W4WMT]

One aspect I am uncertain about, due to the timeline, is the resampling code by Bryan W4WMT. As far as I can tell, it is not present in PowerSDR mRX, since features like VarRatio do not appear in the VAC setup (though I have not reviewed the source code). However, its inclusion in their documentation and videos suggests that if it later appeared in Thetis, along with all the associated buffer settings, then in my opinion, they must have used Thetis source code.

Hi Richie!

The variable servo resampler in WDSP was developed ab initio by Warren NR0V for the Thetis codebase. At Warren's request, I retroactively patched it into OpenHPSDR/PowerSDR in the Autumn of 2017. So that was my only contribution. Hope the timeline helps!

73, Bryan

[KC2QMA]

I sure hope Flex doesn't steel Dr. Warren Pratt's code to get pure signal working with the new 8000 Series radios.
Just saying

[vu2mb]

Richie is right and his typo, not leaving the space is now worth millions $$ to prove that his code was lifted and used and Olliter lied about it.
Everything is okay till someone lie about it. They should admit and be sorry about it and if possible taken to court. Bill should be shared with us all including Apache.

Richie has put much effort and countless hours into the Anan Radios community to make Thetis better with every release.

73
Bhanu
VU2MB

[Trucker]

I sure hope Flex doesn't steel Dr. Warren Pratt's code to get pure signal working with the new 8000 Series radios.
Just saying

Adaptive Pre-Destortion has been around a fairly long time. Flex Radio shouldn't have to steal Warren Pratt's code to implement it in their radios. But, if they were going to steal anything from Warren Pratt's WDSP library, I would hope they grabbed the code for NR2.
James
WD5GWY

[PH7R]

I see Olliter has adopted / acknowledged PowerSDR / GNU General Public License (GPL), https://www.olliter.com/ol-master-license.html .

[w3ub]

If they had any common sense they would also make sure their HW is compatible with Thetis, as opposed to locking it down to their version. IMHO.

Doug

[w-u-2-o]

I see Olliter has adopted / acknowledged PowerSDR / GNU General Public License (GPL), https://www.olliter.com/ol-master-license.html .

The acknowledgement isn't worth the pixels it's written with until anybody can fork their code from a publicly accessible software repository. Nobody can do that at this time, and what they published has a long list of excuses-er-"tasks" they want to finish prior to making it publicly accessible. Meaning they are going to slow roll this as much as they think they can get away with. And, if and when they do make it available, rather than the easy peasy Github approach they'll probably make it as difficult and obscure a process as possible.

[PH7R]

More or less similair to Flexradio, also originated from PowerSDR. You are locked in with the HW en software is more or less closed. Somehow you can not blame them, they put much effort in hw as unique selling point. And after a few years they charge you with a annual fee for sw updates etcc. Somebody has to pay the salaries

[K4IBC]

If they had any common sense they would also make sure their HW is compatible with Thetis, as opposed to locking it down to their version. IMHO.

Doug

That project started out designing new hardware and at the time it was started PowerSDR was the most used software. Thetis was around but development was flat. I am not sure what year Ritchie became involved with Thetis. Olliter chose to design their hardware around PowerSDR modifying it to suit their hardware. Switching mid stream would have meant big delays in releasing a hardware product.The basic code base of PowerSDR is there but has been modified to suit their hardware. This is why they had to release their software as open source. PowerSDR was open source and since their software was a derivative of that it also had to be open source.

Who knows what all is going on in the background. Maybe they are looking at Thetis and using the code for premium software. It too would also have to be open source.

One thing I have noticed browsing their website is no link to their modified version of PowerSDR. Not so open source when you don't display a link to it. I honestly do not like the UI they have chosen. It looks cluttered and run together.

Glad to see them finally owning the fact that it is a derivative of PowerSDR but that is something that should have been done at the beginning. That is a giant X against them starting out.
We do need new hardware to produce an easily and consistent available radio. The manufacturing infrastructure is not there to make it OTS like Icom, Yaesu, or Kenwood.
HL2 is a nice radio but sparse when compared to ANAN but it is more consistent delivery. But we need more radio that can compete against Anan and uses Thetis. Until that happens this is all we have to work with. I know I know Flex is out their but their software is no match to Thetis. It's good software just not at the level Thetis is now. Granted it lacks true Server Client software for remote operation but the G2 suggested that was possible in the future. As far as we know that has not been developed for public release. Someone maybe working on it or they may not be. Users need and thrive on encouragement and even the developers do too. Why develop something nobody wants. When Ritchie first looked at Thetis it was just a spare time project that someone asked him to look at. He didn't have ambition to become heavily involved in the development, but when he saw the need and the want of the user base he climbed aboard the bandwagon and rocked us with his heavy metal. Although he may prefer Classical music LOL.

Sorry everyone too much coffee and stuck inside with all this ice this weekend. Didn't mean to ramble.

[K4IBC]

I see Olliter has adopted / acknowledged PowerSDR / GNU General Public License (GPL), https://www.olliter.com/ol-master-license.html .

The acknowledgement isn't worth the pixels it's written with until anybody can fork their code from a publicly accessible software repository. Nobody can do that at this time, and what they published has a long list of excuses-er-"tasks" they want to finish prior to making it publicly accessible. Meaning they are going to slow roll this as much as they think they can get away with. And, if and when they do make it available, rather than the easy peasy Github approach they'll probably make it as difficult and obscure a process as possible.

EXACTLY!! Give us a link to the software. The excuse buy the radio we give you the software free on a thumb drive for you to install or an obscure link with a NDA bullcrap agreement.

[K4IBC]

More or less similair to Flexradio, also originated from PowerSDR. You are locked in with the HW en software is more or less closed. Somehow you can not blame them, they put much effort in hw as unique selling point. And after a few years they charge you with a annual fee for sw updates etcc. Somebody has to pay the salaries

Yes they started out using PowerSDR but they switched software to SmartSDR which I don't know the whole story but I don't think is a derivative of any open source code. I hate subscription ware. Now I do agree that to jump for one version to another major version can incur a fee to cover development cost in producing the new version. You buy a radio and it comes with 3.0 software and down the line they release 4.0. You can stick with 3.0 that works but if you want the new features of 4.0 then pay a $100. You can't have your PI and eat it too. Someone has to pay those developers.

[PH7R]

But we need more radio that can compete against Anan and uses Thetis.

We have Expert Electronics with SunSDR and MB1 Prime but also with closed software. Expert also did not deliver all the promises (yet) with for example full duplex. But lately they catched up with some nice software upgrades (all for free) and remote access. I have been playing around with ExpertSDR3.0 but not with Remote software of Expert and must say SDR3.0 is really good. Luckily every ham is free to choose its hardware supplier and closed or fully open software with all its pro's and cons.