Voicemeeter vs VB-Matrix

[K1LSB]

Scott,

You've mentioned that you've been considering stepping away from Voicemeeter and going exclusively to Matrix.

Can you give us your thoughts on that? I'm considering doing the same thing.

Thanks in advance,

Mark

[w-u-2-o]

The drivers and driver performance are the same between the two app's. The major difference is that Matrix is conceptually simpler to use. After all, it's just a big crossbar switch for audio. So it comes down to whether or not you want to use the mixing board features of Voicemeeter.

You can use both at the same time if you wish, with Matrix being the "studio patch panel", and thus patch Voicemeeter in an out as required or desired for "mixing board" functionality. With Matrix you can also substitute a more sophisticated DAW for Voicemeeter.

Although I've dabbled with Matrix, right now I'm still using Voicemeeter simply because I have not wanted to make any major changes in my (very stable) setup. However, for those looking to connect Thetis (via cmASIO would be my recommendation), a DAW (Voicemeeter or otherwise), an interface (Behringer, Focusrite, etc.), and other digi-mode software (e.g. WSJT-X), it's hard to go wrong with either approach, and many may find Matrix to be an easier and less complex/confusing way to do it.

[K1LSB]

Thanks Scott.

I'm currently using Voicemeeter Potato for all of my mic and speaker audio tweaking (EQ, reverb, denoiser) but there are some really nice VST EQ plugins (TDR Nova GE is one) that would give me more flexibility than what the parametric EQs in VM currently offer.

I know that would require a VST host so I'd be running Cantabile Lite for that. TX and RX latency has always been a pretty big consideration for me so I'd need to do some oscilloscope testing between the two (VM and Matrix) to see which offers the lowest latencies.

Like yourself, I've got Voicemeeter pretty much dialed in for my use case (MOTU M4, cmASIO, fldigi), I'm just kinda getting an itch to step outside of the somewhat restricted set of audio processing tools that VM offers. Besides, I've never done any mixing so I don't need that aspect of VM -- I basically just need a patch panel.

For the record, I've never tried any of the audio processing tools embedded in Thetis, as I haven't ever heard any examples of other Thetis users' audio coming through those tools that don't have some sort of undesirable artifacts present in the output. With that said, I probably owe it to myself to at least investigate those tools before summarily dismissing their usefulness.

Mark

[w-u-2-o]

For the record, I've never tried any of the audio processing tools embedded in Thetis, as I haven't ever heard any examples of other Thetis users' audio coming through those tools that don't have some sort of undesirable artifacts present in the output. With that said, I probably owe it to myself to at least investigate those tools before summarily dismissing their usefulness.

Indeed you do! I'm shocked that you say that every case you've heard of those using only the built-in Thetis audio processing it did not sound good.

Warren and I worked closely together to create a 90% solution for voice processing built into Thetis. This solution is based on a compendium of lessons learned from the ESSB/voodoo audio/rack processing crowd. This resulted in the following signal chain, each stage of which may or may not be employed as desired by the user:

Mic Gain > Phase Rotator > Expander > Leveler > 1st 10 band semi-parametric EQ > "CFC" 10 band semi-parametric compressor > 2nd 10 band semi-parametric EQ > "ALC" look-ahead, true-peak, brickwall limiter.

The expander is also integrated with the VOX and is fully adjustable with both side-chain filtering and look-ahead processing so that no syllables are lost with VOX. It is the only VOX like this in the amateur radio world and, properly used, is so natural it cannot be distinguished from PTT operations.

With two EQ stages and three stages of compression (leveler, multi-band compressor, and "ALC" limiter), the chain is capable of the same processing used by DAW and rack hardware users. That said, we did not feel it was appropriate to include things like reverb, harmonic processing (e.g. Aphex) or any other sort of colorization beyond that possible by EQ and compression.

There is legacy processing in Thetis, namely the COMP compressor and the CESSB processor. IMHO, these should never be used as they result in very poor performance compared to the more modern algorithms. CESSB (which requires COMP to be activated) is particularly nasty with respect to artifacts despite its design goal of less artifacts. Perhaps the folks that sounded bad to you were using these functions.

As with any tool, it can be used well or used badly. If you are well trained in the art of audio processing, I have no doubt you can make Thetis work in an outstanding fashion without having to resort to a DAW or other VST host software.

[K1LSB]

Indeed you do! I'm shocked that you say that every case you've heard of those using only the built-in Thetis audio processing it did not sound good.
.
...signal chain...Mic Gain > Phase Rotator > Expander > Leveler > 1st 10 band semi-parametric EQ > "CFC" 10 band semi-parametric compressor > 2nd 10 band semi-parametric EQ > "ALC" look-ahead, true-peak, brickwall limiter.
.
As with any tool, it can be used well or used badly. If you are well trained in the art of audio processing, I have no doubt you can make Thetis work in an outstanding fashion without having to resort to a DAW or other VST host software.

I think you nailed the problem -- I'm pretty near an idiot in the art of audio processing, that's basically why I'm afraid to venture a single step into that rather intimidating realm.

Can you possibly offer any pointers toward an understanding of how to competently utilize the Thetis audio tools you noted?

Mark

[w-u-2-o]

I think you nailed the problem -- I'm pretty near an idiot in the art of audio processing, that's basically why I'm afraid to venture a single step into that rather intimidating realm.

Can you possibly offer any pointers toward an understanding of how to competently utilize the Thetis audio tools you noted?

Mark

Using VST plug-in's will be just as challenging, if not more so. Perhaps it would be better to start with the tools in Thetis.

This is one of those "learn by doing and listening" things. And also seeing how many unsolicited "great audio" reports you get. Don't be afraid to experiment. Be sure to take full advantage of the TX profiles feature in Thetis. That way you can quite easily go back a step or two if you come up with something horrible At the same time, having known-good (or known-OK, at least) profiles to fall back on allows experimentation without risk.

The extensive audio processing suite in Thetis goes all the way back to later versions of PowerSDR. The only major changes since then have been the greatly improved expander and VOX. The default settings for the expander and VOX are pretty close to optimum for most folks. For everything else, I recommend starting with this topic, viewtopic.php?t=2550. Be sure to watch the videos. And then you might follow up with this topic, viewtopic.php?t=2508.

[K1LSB]

Lots of good info, thanks Scott!

Mark